Do I really need headers (Emission Concerns as well)

Streamview · Apr 1, 2024

I have a 2020 Ram 2500 with 6.4L. I am one of those guys that likes to keep my trucks until they die; which has been in the area of 270-300k miles for the last two; and they were still running when I had to ditch them for other reasons. In both cases I put on shorty headers because I always believed that headers extended engine life by lessoning backpressure. Is this actually the case or do headers not add to engine life. Don't get me wrong I also enjoy the performance enhancements as well. BUT the limited options for the truck appear to be are very limited, and expensive, which have me second guessing the value added. Basically ARH Long tubes appear to be the only solution. Which brings up my next concern. I live in Maryland which requires emissions inspections every two years. Would I have to worry about passing emissions with ARH Cat Long tubes.

Thanks!

joesstripclub · Apr 1, 2024

I put shorties on my 1500 to prevent warped manifolds down the road. I expected to keep it longer but needed a bigger truck for a camper. Now I'm debating them on the 6.4. I can't say I've ever heard they help the engine last longer due to backpressure, but I'm no expert. As for your long tube question, long tubes are generally catless so yes you will have issues with emissions. I would guess that even high flow cats will have issues but I've never had a car tested with them installed.

Gregket1 · Apr 1, 2024

For half the cost of the ARH you can get AFE shorties that are a direct bolt in swap for existing manifolds.

Twisted Steel 304 Stainless Steel Short Tube Header

Performance Gains: This system produced gains of up to +11 HP and +19 lbs. x Ft. TQ., as measured on our in-house dyno. 1-7/8 IN - 2-1/4 IN 304 Stainless Steel Construction: This system is constructed of 1-7/8 IN - 2-1/4 IN mandrel-bent 304 stainless steel tubing for maximum strength and...

afepower.com

Send them to Jet-Hot and get them coated inside and out for about $400 more and you will also have a cooler engine compartment.

I don’t know about Maryland, but in California no header will pass smog. I have no idea why shorties don’t since they change nothing in the emissions system, but they don’t.

Mister Luck · Apr 1, 2024

Streamview said:
I have a 2020 Ram 2500 with 6.4L. I am one of those guys that likes to keep my trucks until they die; which has been in the area of 270-300k miles for the last two; and they were still running when I had to ditch them for other reasons. In both cases I put on shorty headers because I always believed that headers extended engine life by lessoning backpressure. Is this actually the case or do headers not add to engine life. Don't get me wrong I also enjoy the performance enhancements as well. BUT the limited options for the truck appear to be are very limited, and expensive, which have me second guessing the value added. Basically ARH Long tubes appear to be the only solution. Which brings up my next concern. I live in Maryland which requires emissions inspections every two years. Would I have to worry about passing emissions with ARH Cat Long tubes.

Thanks!

If you are trying to sell these exhaust systems by posing this question I apologize in advance.

You would see only minimal gains
you should save your money for taller gears and race gas.

Cast iron logs are used because they fit the middle ground between the design for performance and longevity .

Maybe redoing the header bolts to a beefier size and strengthen them as preventative maintenance .

If you were buying a Helephant crate engine then the exhaust you mentioned would probably be required.

Streamview · Apr 2, 2024

Not trying to sell anything. Just trying to decide if the headers would be an investment into extending the life of my truck or just a waste of a lot of money. Kinda frustrating that there are so few options for this truck/engine combination though.

DILLIGAF · Apr 2, 2024

They are tons of options, lots are junk! thats why places like Moes only sell what works.

Daw14 · Apr 2, 2024

Say no to stronger more robust bolts ,that is a bad idea as they will pull the threads out of the head instead of just breaking. Most times these broken bolts will come out with a nut welded to the stub ,however having to retap and heli-coil is a whole lot more work . Yes the price of a lot of the available headers has gone through the roof.

mdc1990zr1 · Apr 2, 2024

Mister Luck said:
If you are trying to sell these exhaust systems by posing this question I apologize in advance.

You would see only minimal gains
you should save your money for taller gears and race gas.

Cast iron logs are used because they fit the middle ground between the design for performance and longevity .

Maybe redoing the header bolts to a beefier size and strength in preventative maintenance .

If you were buying a Helephant crate engine then the exhaust you mentioned would probably be required.

I often pondered that myself. I have never heard of anyone swapping heads and/or motors ever tapping the heads for a beefier bolt. If for nothing else, only the two rear-most that bolt to the y-pipe flange. You can certainly put an equivalent bolt in there of similar grade that shouldn’t pull the threads.

Racer9 · Apr 5, 2024

joesstripclub said:
As for your long tube question, long tubes are generally catless so yes you will have issues with emissions. I would guess that even high flow cats will have issues but I've never had a car tested with them installed.

While the long tubes don't have cats, neither do the shorties, the cats are actually in the exhaust system, Y-pipe on OEM, or you can buy a system with cats.
Here in PA headers are permitted by the state, and we have no sniffers at inspection, just a visual.
I just installed my Stainless Works/Borla system with cats. I was getting a P0420 P0430 code which is emission related, and common with high flow cats, so I did the "fix", but I haven't driven it since due to snow, so I don't know if it worked.
BTW, it does run better, is more responsive, and sounds great!

ToxicFire · Apr 5, 2024

Are bbk headers (ok) im in canada and the local shop can get in ceramic coated bbk shorties.

CanuckRam1313 · Apr 5, 2024

ToxicFire said:
Are bbk headers (ok) im in canada and the local shop can get in ceramic coated bbk shorties.

RUN AWAY from BBK exhaust parts!!!!!!!!!

Wild one · Apr 5, 2024

ToxicFire said:
Are bbk headers (ok) im in canada and the local shop can get in ceramic coated bbk shorties.

Junk as CR stated run away from them. Shorties are a waste of time,if you're doing headers suck it up and put long tubes on it.Long tubes generate more bottem end torque,and pull harder all through the powerband,then shorties do.Headers act alot like your intake manifold,the long runner portion of your intake is for torque and roughly about 4400/4500 the intake switches over to the short runners to promote high rpm power.

ToxicFire · Apr 5, 2024

Wild one said:
Junk as CR stated run away from them. Shorties are a waste of time,if you're doing headers suck it up and put long tubes on it.Long tubes generate more bottem end torque,and pull harder all through the powerband,then shorties do.Headers act alot like your intake manifold,the long runner portion of your intake is for torque and roughly about 4400/4500 the intake switches over to the short runners to promote high rpm power.

Ok good to know. Are long tubes alot more labor involved?

CanuckRam1313 · Apr 5, 2024

ToxicFire said:
Ok good to know. Are long tubes alot more labor involved?

LT's are a different beast altogether!

Using LT's will require one to have some custom work performed, and more so a custom tune will be needed as well.

You'll also need to omit the factory cats and go right into the exhaust system after the cats. Do ensure you get either straight pipes all the way back, or a custom y-pipe as you'll need the flow to dial in all the gains possible from LT's!

The benefits of LT's vs shorty's are night and day.

If budget is an issue, go with factory bolt on shorty's - AFE will likely be your best solution, and use either Remflex or SRT factory gaskets and/or ARP/SRT bolts to lock it all into place.

If you're really looking for best benefits... go with LT's and HP Tuners to NET the very best gains possible!

It all comes down to what you can afford and likely what your region allows for in terms of compliancy

Wild one · Apr 5, 2024

ToxicFire said:
Ok good to know. Are long tubes alot more labor involved?

No more work then shorties if you buy the corresponding midpipe for them. You can run long tubes with-out a tune,but you'll definitely get more return on your dollar if you also run a tune with them.
Good news is your 14 is easy to tune,as you don't need an unlocked PCM. If you have the 8 speed,don't even bother with Diablo,good chance it won't support tuning your 8 speed,go right to HP.
If you're looking for a tuner, Chris Zelinski of Player 3 Tuning in Edmonton is a pretty good tuner.He's as good if not better then the 2 big name email tuners that are promoted as truck tuners.He also tunes strictly with HP.
If you decide to go with Chris,he prefers phone calls,and his phone number is listed here.Don't be scared to phone him on the week-ends,he works pretty well 7 days a week.I think he's in Saskatoon this week-end tuning,so if no answer leave a message.

Player 3 Performance Tuning

Player 3 Performance Tuning, for your domestic automotive calibration needs. Optimize power, response, and economy combined!

player3.ca

ToxicFire · Apr 5, 2024

Wild one said:
No more work then shorties if you buy the corresponding midpipe for them. You can run long tubes with-out a tune,but you'll definitely get more return on your dollar if you also run a tune with them.
Good news is your 14 is easy to tune,as you don't need an unlocked PCM. If you have the 8 speed,don't even bother with Diablo,good chance it won't support tuning your 8 speed,go right to HP.
If you're looking for a tuner, Chris Zelinski of Player 3 Tuning in Edmonton is a pretty good tuner.He's as good if not better then the 2 big name email tuners that are promoted as truck tuners.He also tunes strictly with HP.
If you decide to go with Chris,he prefers phone calls,and his phone number is listed here.Don't be scared to phone him on the week-ends,he works pretty well 7 days a week.I think he's in Saskatoon this week-end tuning,so if no answer leave a message.

Player 3 Performance Tuning

Player 3 Performance Tuning, for your domestic automotive calibration needs. Optimize power, response, and economy combined!

player3.ca

Oh ok good to know thanks. I thought diablo fixed there tuners to work with our 8 speeds. As i know a couple years ago i was told to get superchips i think if i recall as it does the transmission. Ill look at HP though. Is it basically the same i can disable mds and do a 91 octain tune ect for now then get a custom tune late?

Nick@GotExhaust · Apr 5, 2024

If worried about emissions I would go with AFE shorty headers. They wont warp, crack, or snap bolts like the stock manifolds. They will also gain some power! Let me know if you would like a quote, just send me a message.

Wild one · Apr 5, 2024

ToxicFire said:
Oh ok good to know thanks. I thought diablo fixed there tuners to work with our 8 speeds. As i know a couple years ago i was told to get superchips i think if i recall as it does the transmission. Ill look at HP though. Is it basically the same i can disable mds and do a 91 octain tune ect for now then get a custom tune late?

I wouldn't be hung up on disabling MDS through a tune,if you want to disable mds properly swap to a non-mds cam and lifters,and pull the mds solenoids and replace them with the plugs that Ma Mopar uses in her non-mds engines.
Spend about 16 minutes and watch this video to the end.

Is MDS Damaging Your HEMI? The Answer May Surprise You!

I feel like MDS has been unfairly made the culprit for the lifter failures we see on Gen 3 Hemi engines. In this video I explain exactly how the system works...

www.youtube.com

Gregket1 · Apr 5, 2024

Wild one said:
I wouldn't be hung up on disabling MDS through a tune,

Agree. Especially since you can easily disable it via buttons. Downshift so it starts showing gear numbers, then upshift to top gear. MDS is now disabled.

Wild one · Apr 5, 2024

Gregket1 said:
Agree. Especially since you can easily disable it via buttons. Downshift so it starts showing gear numbers, then upshift to top gear. MDS is now disabled.

Watch the complete video Greg,you might not be so inclined to disable it that way either. It's worth spending the 16 minutes it takes to watch the video. Throw in the fact MDS has never been proven to kill cams or lifters.

Do I really need headers (Emission Concerns as well)

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