For the guys who think deactivating the mds via a tune is a good idea

[JHoward]

I always hated mds, but I just couldn't justify a tune for a while. Anyways as typical with all these hemis, the pcv had sent so much oil into my intake and I decided to pull my manifold, clean it and regasket it. I read somewhere on here that installing the plugs without a non-mds cam would cause problems, but leaving them in and unplugged would be fine. So while I was cleaning my intake manifold on my truck I said screw it and unplugged em.

That gave me a cel because of course it would. It convinced me to finally get an unlocked ECU and a tuner. I have mds disabled in my tune and I've never had any problems.

Is it totally possible that I misread something and could have just put in the block off plugs? Of course it is. Do I care enough to pull my intake manifold off again to replace the solenoids with block off plugs? No way haha.

Besides, it's like an egr delete, if it's unplugged, it's effectively blocked off the same as a plate would do.

With the tune, did you bump the engine idle up~750rpms?

From what I've learned here in the RAMforum, lower rpms at idle are supposedly harder on the cam/lifters due to lower volume of oil "splash".

 

[RainZeros]

With the tune, did you bump the engine idle up~750rpms?

From what I've learned here in the RAMforum, lower rpms at idle are supposedly harder on the cam/lifters due to lower volume of oil "splash".

No, but it's definitely something I will be looking into, I regularly see it idling around 600 rippems.
To be fair, I drive like a bat out of hell, often taking "trips to Mexico" to test my top speed, (I seem to hit a power wall at 132, I could probably hit 135 in 3-5 business days) so who knows that very much could be the reason I don't have any lifter tick. Either that or it knows that I'm itching to throw a hellcat engine in.

 

[JHoward]

No, but it's definitely something I will be looking into, I regularly see it idling around 600 rippems.
To be fair, I drive like a bat out of hell, often taking "trips to Mexico" to test my top speed, (I seem to hit a power wall at 132, I could probably hit 135 in 3-5 business days) so who knows that very much could be the reason I don't have any lifter tick. Either that or it knows that I'm itching to throw a hellcat engine in.

Actually, all you did by unplugging the solenoids is the same difference from just manually turning them off on the steering wheel/shift sector and getting the CEL ... in which you were already doing before unplugging them.

So, I'll just opt for doing an cam/lifter swap with MDS delete via an program when that time comes.

Happy motoring and hammer down!

 

[RainZeros]

Actually, all you did by unplugging the solenoids is the same difference from just manually turning them off on the steering wheel/shift sector and getting the CEL ... in which you were already doing before unplugging them.

So, I'll just opt for doing an cam/lifter swap with MDS delete via an program when that time comes.

Happy motoring and hammer down!

Yeah the only reason I unplugged them is so I can be lazy and not have to press buttons every time to be honest haha

 

[ramffml]

Yeah the only reason I unplugged them is so I can be lazy and not have to press buttons every time to be honest haha

You may be a good candidate for a pulsar! It says it adds up to 30 hp/lb ft, and also has the ability to turn off MDS.

Two birds, one stone.

Only downside is that it changes your pedal sensitivity too and I detest that specific feature because I can't change the values independently of the hp tune.

 

[JHoward]

You may be a good candidate for a pulsar! It says it adds up to 30 hp/lb ft, and also has the ability to turn off MDS.

Two birds, one stone.

Only downside is that it changes your pedal sensitivity too and I detest that specific feature because I can't change the values independently of the hp tune.

I have one and took it off. I couldn't tell anything different other than my HEMI was more peppy due to the Pulsar "adjusting the go fast peddle" when selecting the "#8 canned tune" ... even selecting #8 (Performance Mode/non Active MDS), my HEMI would still for a split nano second would come out of MDS mode ... maybe the Pulsar needed to be sent back and reprogrammed or replaced ... I'm not convinced of the hp/torq gain at 30 each, but never had it Dyno'd for actual verification ... I took the Pulsar off and it currently resides in my front computer room's closet.

 

[ramffml]

I have one and took it off. I couldn't tell anything different other than my HEMI was more peppy due to the Pulsar "adjusting the go fast peddle" when selecting the "#8 canned tune" ... even selecting #8 (Performance Mode/non Active MDS), my HEMI would still for a split nano second would come out of MDS mode ... maybe the Pulsar needed to be sent back and reprogrammed or replaced ... I'm not convinced of the hp/torq gain at 30 each, but never had it Dyno'd for actual verification ... I took the Pulsar off and it currently resides in my front computer room's closet.

Just curious, have you tried with 91+ octane for at least 2 full consecutive tanks?

They have dyno tested it on YT and found some gains but whether you feel it seat of the pants on 87 or not, that could be hard to say.

 

[RainZeros]

You may be a good candidate for a pulsar! It says it adds up to 30 hp/lb ft, and also has the ability to turn off MDS.

Two birds, one stone.

Only downside is that it changes your pedal sensitivity too and I detest that specific feature because I can't change the values independently of the hp tune.

Would have been a good candidate* I'm fully tuned. Zoom zoom!

 

[crackerjack1957]

Tuning for 87 octane would be to get rid of ping if you have detonation......will be no performance increase at all.
HP & torque tune increase would be advance timing with added fuel/air from the higher octane fuels. More octane=more timing=more power

 

[Wild one]

I always hated mds, but I just couldn't justify a tune for a while. Anyways as typical with all these hemis, the pcv had sent so much oil into my intake and I decided to pull my manifold, clean it and regasket it. I read somewhere on here that installing the plugs without a non-mds cam would cause problems, but leaving them in and unplugged would be fine. So while I was cleaning my intake manifold on my truck I said screw it and unplugged em.

That gave me a cel because of course it would. It convinced me to finally get an unlocked ECU and a tuner. I have mds disabled in my tune and I've never had any problems.

Is it totally possible that I misread something and could have just put in the block off plugs? Of course it is. Do I care enough to pull my intake manifold off again to replace the solenoids with block off plugs? No way haha.

Besides, it's like an egr delete, if it's unplugged, it's effectively blocked off the same as a plate would do.

You'd need at the very least to replace the 8 mds lifters with 8 non-mds lifters to pull the solenoids and replace them with the plugs,otherwise the engine will always be in mds mode.
Unplugging the solenoids isn't the same as replacing them with the plugs,as they're stuck in the closed loop,and restrict oil to the lifter bores,while the plugs allow full oil flow to the lifter bores,that's why the engine would be in full time mds mode with just a solenoid replacement.
The cam lobes are differant between the mds and non-mds lobes,with in laymans terms a softer ramp profile for the mds lifters to soften the clearance shock. Techinically you should also replace the cam to a non-mds cam,but there have been guys who just slammed non-mds lifters in place of the mds lifters ,replaced the solenoids with the plugs and are getting away with it

 

[JHoward]

Just curious, have you tried with 91+ octane for at least 2 full consecutive tanks?

They have dyno tested it on YT and found some gains but whether you feel it seat of the pants on 87 or not, that could be hard to say.

I've always used non-ethenol 91 octane, nothing else.

 

[JHoward]

You'd need at the very least to replace the 8 mds lifters with 8 non-mds lifters to pull the solenoids and replace them with the plugs,otherwise the engine will always be in mds mode.
Unplugging the solenoids isn't the same as replacing them with the plugs,as they're stuck in the closed loop,and restrict oil to the lifter bores,while the plugs allow full oil flow to the lifter bores,that's why the engine would be in full time mds mode with just a solenoid replacement.
The cam lobes are differant between the mds and non-mds lobes,with in laymans terms a softer ramp profile for the mds lifters to soften the clearance shock. Techinically you should also replace the cam to a non-mds cam,but there have been guys who just slammed non-mds lifters in place of the mds lifters ,replaced the solenoids with the plugs and are getting away with it

Yep, absolutely. I'm surprised at folks whom opt out on installing just the non-MDS lifters or even sometimes re-using the original cam, they've already gone that far into it not to replace all lifters/cam, rather MDS delete altogether.

 

[JHoward]

Just curious, have you tried with 91+ octane for at least 2 full consecutive tanks?

They have dyno tested it on YT and found some gains but whether you feel it seat of the pants on 87 or not, that could be hard to say.

@ramffml, I'm not knocking on you, maybe I could give it another go ... slap it back on and let "r" rip again and make another assessed opinion if it's worth it and if I missed something.

 

[ramsare4real]

So the real culprit to lifter/cam failure is excessive idling.

That exacerbates the root cause, which is subpar metallurgy of the components.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

Saturn had locked prices right?

They sure did along with trying to steal your trade in, and the fact that their biggest engine was a 2.0 4 banger super coupe way under powered for the size of the car and I believe there was allot of blown molded plastic body panels, my son G/F had one w 1.5 liter that consumed large quantities of motor oil wound up seizing it up.