For the guys who think deactivating the mds via a tune is a good idea

Black1500Ram · May 30, 2024

RainZeros said:
I always hated mds, but I just couldn't justify a tune for a while. Anyways as typical with all these hemis, the pcv had sent so much oil into my intake and I decided to pull my manifold, clean it and regasket it. I read somewhere on here that installing the plugs without a non-mds cam would cause problems, but leaving them in and unplugged would be fine. So while I was cleaning my intake manifold on my truck I said screw it and unplugged em.

That gave me a cel because of course it would. It convinced me to finally get an unlocked ECU and a tuner. I have mds disabled in my tune and I've never had any problems.

Is it totally possible that I misread something and could have just put in the block off plugs? Of course it is. Do I care enough to pull my intake manifold off again to replace the solenoids with block off plugs? No way haha.

Besides, it's like an egr delete, if it's unplugged, it's effectively blocked off the same as a plate would do.

The main thing I see in keeping the mds solenoids in place like this, it keeps oil flow restricted to all your lifters compared to if you had the block off plates.

Black1500Ram · May 30, 2024

CUAviator said:
The PCM will activate the 4-cylinder mode when the following enabling conditions are met:

Low engine load

1200 to 3000 rpm

Low engine load is the caveat for me.

Since I have an exhaust, its very discernable when my truck is in MDS and it certainly isn't all the time.
Honestly anything more than a Spongebob big toe press of the gas pedal takes it out of MDS mode.
Another way to look at it is bring up your fuel economy gauge... if the instant gauge us under say 18mpg its off

turkeybird56 · May 30, 2024

caulk04 said:
Nobody wants to read or research, just jump on the wagon of who's yelling loudest.

'Technology bad, me want dinosaur'

Well TBH, it was a lot easier to work on that 67 SS, than one of these computer behemoths THAT I do not have the knowledge or the tools to do. But of course, with the 67, the only Modern conveniences was roll up windows and windshield wipers, lmao.

ramffml · May 30, 2024

Black1500Ram said:
The main thing I see in keeping the mds solenoids in place like this, it keeps oil flow restricted to all your lifters compared to if you had the block off plates.

We know that hemis without MDS from the factory still get lifter failures (the manual challengers for example). Do they not use the block off plates? If so, I don't think the "restricted oil flow" thing is an actual issue.

mikeru · May 30, 2024

CUAviator said:
Out of curiosity - I just purchased a 2024 1500 Classic (Warlock) - 5.7, non eToque, 4x4. What generation does this fall into? On the forum list, Gen 4 has the Classics” up to 2023, then Gen 5 doesn’t mention them. My last Ram was an 03 1500 5.7 that I bought new on the lot and traded in this weekend (sad tears)…I knew where that one stood.

Your truck is a 4th gen. Regarding 1500's, the easiest way to tell is to count the lug nuts. If it has 5 it's a 4th gen (DS) and if there are 6 it's a 5th gen (DT). There are lots of less obvious differences but counting the lug nuts is the easiest way I know of to tell them apart at first glance.

Choppz · May 31, 2024

ramffml said:
We know that hemis without MDS from the factory still get lifter failures (the manual challengers for example). Do they not use the block off plates? If so, I don't think the "restricted oil flow" thing is an actual issue.

Agreed! Maybe this was just a click bait thread to sell product

Wild one · May 31, 2024

Choppz said:
Agreed! Maybe this was just a click bait thread to sell product

Yea i highly doubt that.I have no relationship with MMX,the post was created to inform guys like you about the downfalls of running with mds deactivated .If you're smart you'll learn something,if not,that's your problem,not mine,lol.
Did you join today,just to enlighten us with your wisdom
Have a good day sir,and maybe give up on trying to insult people,it doesn't usually go over well :waytogo:

ramffml · May 31, 2024

mikeru said:
Your truck is a 4th gen. Regarding 1500's, the easiest way to tell is to count the lug nuts. If it has 5 it's a 4th gen (DS) and if there are 6 it's a 5th gen (DT). There are lots of less obvious differences but counting the lug nuts is the easiest way I know of to tell them apart at first glance.

I always see that jay leno chin on the 4th, no mistaking it!

4xdad · May 31, 2024

I have a 6.4pw owned it since new it has 250k kms no issues other than a blown up tranny. I have turned off the mds since i figured it out with the gear shift but then I got a pulsar and I used it to shut it off and change the tire size. I live in Alberta so in the winter it idles quite a bit. I use the recommended oil that I get from Amazon because I can’t find it anywhere. I use a gram filter and the last half a litre I use Lucas oil additive. No noise yet

Choppz · May 31, 2024

Wild one said:
Yea i highly doubt that.I have no relationship with MMX,the post was created to inform guys like you about the downfalls of running with mds deactivated .If you're smart you'll learn something,if not,that's your problem,not mine,lol.
Did you join today,just to enlighten us with your wisdom
Have a good day sir,and maybe give up on trying to insult people,it doesn't usually go over well

did that post insult you? hmm sensitive i see. I guess you should just move on then...keyboard warriors don't intimidate me :leghump:

Black1500Ram · May 31, 2024

brand new members jumping all over long time members... never seen this before

Wild one · May 31, 2024

Black1500Ram said:
brand new members jumping all over long time members... never seen this before

He seems to be all about helping everybody out,lol
He's gonna fit in well :Big Laugh:

Check out post #2 on this thread,he really went overboard helping the OP out :waytogo:

08 hemi 5.7 8hp70 swap

was hopping someone could help me out with what all is needed to swap a 8hp70 into my 3rd gen mostly abojt the computers

www.ramforum.com

RainZeros · May 31, 2024

Question, there is such things as "current" gen non-mds Hemis, correct? If so, do these factory non-mds Hemis have the same oil passages that the mds models do?

I am to understand that if you install the block off plates for the solenoids, oil flows over the lifters in an MDS engine constantly. Is this still the case on a non-mds engine? If they do not have the same oil passageways and oil DOES NOT flow over the lifters all the time, then logically, using block off plates would cause over oiling which can be pretty bad too.

I would go as far to say that if the non mds engines DO NOT have the same oil passages, then the ONLY proper way to delete mds is to unplug the solenoids and leave them in place

HOWEVER, if they are the same then everyone's #1 mod SHOULD be cam, lifters and block off plates

Wild one · Jun 1, 2024

RainZeros said:
Question, there is such things as "current" gen non-mds Hemis, correct? If so, do these factory non-mds Hemis have the same oil passages that the mds models do?

I am to understand that if you install the block off plates for the solenoids, oil flows over the lifters in an MDS engine constantly. Is this still the case on a non-mds engine? If they do not have the same oil passageways and oil DOES NOT flow over the lifters all the time, then logically, using block off plates would cause over oiling which can be pretty bad too.

I would go as far to say that if the non mds engines DO NOT have the same oil passages, then the ONLY proper way to delete mds is to unplug the solenoids and leave them in place

HOWEVER, if they are the same then everyone's #1 mod SHOULD be cam, lifters and block off plates

MDS and non-mds engines are identical in regards to the oiling system,the only differances being the mds solenoids are replaced with block off plugs,that allow full oil flow to the lifters all the time.The only non-mds engines available for the last several years are the vehicles equipped with the 6.2 Hellcat engine,and the manual transmission 5.7 and 6.4 Challengers.
The blocks are the same between MDS and Non-MDS engines.

Wild one · Jun 1, 2024

RainZeros said:
Question, there is such things as "current" gen non-mds Hemis, correct? If so, do these factory non-mds Hemis have the same oil passages that the mds models do?

I am to understand that if you install the block off plates for the solenoids, oil flows over the lifters in an MDS engine constantly. Is this still the case on a non-mds engine? If they do not have the same oil passageways and oil DOES NOT flow over the lifters all the time, then logically, using block off plates would cause over oiling which can be pretty bad too.

I would go as far to say that if the non mds engines DO NOT have the same oil passages, then the ONLY proper way to delete mds is to unplug the solenoids and leave them in place

HOWEVER, if they are the same then everyone's #1 mod SHOULD be cam, lifters and block off plates

If you spend about 16 minutes watching this video,you'll have a better understanding about the oiling system.

Is MDS Damaging Your HEMI? The Answer May Surprise You!

I feel like MDS has been unfairly made the culprit for the lifter failures we see on Gen 3 Hemi engines. In this video I explain exactly how the system works...

www.youtube.com

RainZeros · Jun 1, 2024

Wild one said:
MDS and non-mds engines are identical in regards to the oiling system,the only differances being the mds solenoids are replaced with block off plugs,that allow full oil flow to the lifters all the time.The only non-mds engines available for the last several years are the vehicles equipped with the 6.2 Hellcat engine,and the manual transmission 5.7 and 6.4 Challengers.
The blocks are the same between MDS and Non-MDS engines.

Thanks for answering my questions. Wow in that case, I think that anyone who can't stay off the skinny for longer than a minute should swap cam and lifters and use the block off plugs. And I also would agree that leaving mds permanently off could cause more wear. Idealy it wouldn't need that extra oil.

Regardless, like I've said before, itching for a reason to 6.4 swap my ram so I'm gonna avoid the cam and lifters and let ya know if it starts ticking, so far still just the exhaust tick

Black1500Ram · Jun 1, 2024

RainZeros said:
Thanks for answering my questions. Wow in that case, I think that anyone who can't stay off the skinny for longer than a minute should swap cam and lifters and use the block off plugs. And I also would agree that leaving mds permanently off could cause more wear. Idealy it wouldn't need that extra oil.

Regardless, like I've said before, itching for a reason to 6.4 swap my ram so I'm gonna avoid the cam and lifters and let ya know if it starts ticking, so far still just the exhaust tick

We’ve kinda beaten this horse to death on here.
IMO when swapping cam and lifters go with an aftermarket billet cam from a reputable brand should be a must. After that oiling should be a moot point.

tron67j · Jun 1, 2024

mikeru said:
Your truck is a 4th gen. Regarding 1500's, the easiest way to tell is to count the lug nuts. If it has 5 it's a 4th gen (DS) and if there are 6 it's a 5th gen (DT). There are lots of less obvious differences but counting the lug nuts is the easiest way I know of to tell them apart at first glance.

I always look for the 1500 marking; on the door 4th Gen and on the hood 5th Gen.

ramffml · Jun 1, 2024

RainZeros said:
Thanks for answering my questions. Wow in that case, I think that anyone who can't stay off the skinny for longer than a minute should swap cam and lifters and use the block off plugs. And I also would agree that leaving mds permanently off could cause more wear. Idealy it wouldn't need that extra oil.

Regardless, like I've said before, itching for a reason to 6.4 swap my ram so I'm gonna avoid the cam and lifters and let ya know if it starts ticking, so far still just the exhaust tick

As pointed out several times now, even those engines WITH the block off plates from the factory still get lifter failure. It's not the issue. They just have weak lifters/cams, note also that FCA redesigned the lifters and gave them bigger/stronger needle bearings. They most likely know what the issue is, and the signs they gave us were to rework the lifters.

Change your oil on time, run the highest quality oil you can find, and the rest is pure luck IMHO. All kinds of guys getting 250k+ out of their hemi on 5w-20 and 10k OCIs with lots of idling etc. Running 5w-30 and 5000 to 7000 OCI is only going to increase your chances.

mikeru · Jun 1, 2024

tron67j said:
tron67j said:

I always look for the 1500 marking; on the door 4th Gen and on the hood 5th Gen.

Click to expand...

Definitely another one of the ways to tell. As long as all the badges are intact.

For the guys who think deactivating the mds via a tune is a good idea

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