New truck prices are insane

enuser · Aug 18, 2024

As long as there are buyers willing to pay these inflated prices, manufacturers will have little incentive to lower them.

skates15 · Aug 18, 2024

enuser said:
As long as there are buyers willing to pay these inflated prices, manufacturers will have little incentive to lower them.

True, but people aren't buying. They are bleeding money and lots are packed with inventory.

BossHogg · Aug 19, 2024

I've been keeping an eye on the yard stock of the various new car dealers in my area. One Ford dealer I pass almost daily is swelling with F150s and Broncos, the GMC/Buick dealer is also full of yard stock, mostly Sierras. I think the assembly plants are forcing new vehicles on dealers to prevent a complete production shutdown. I've read a lot about shift reductions lately. I don't know if my observations are representative of the rest of the country, I hope not.

The economist are saying people have run out of money, repossessions, foreclosures, and credit card debt are all reaching pinnacle levels. Inflation is down but still well above healthy levels. Industry experts expect to see the insurance industry start raising premiums in 2025 suggesting car insurance could go up by 50% in major areas.

I've lived through two of these inflation events, one in the 1970s and again in the 2006 time frame. I've never seen it this bad for this long with no light in sight.

Sherman Bird · Aug 19, 2024

BossHogg said:
I've been keeping an eye on the yard stock of the various new car dealers in my area. One Ford dealer I pass almost daily is swelling with F150s and Broncos, the GMC/Buick dealer is also full of yard stock, mostly Sierras. I think the assembly plants are forcing new vehicles on dealers to prevent a complete production shutdown. I've read a lot about shift reductions lately. I don't know if my observations are representative of the rest of the country, I hope not.

The economist are saying people have run out of money, repossessions, foreclosures, and credit card debt are all reaching pinnacle levels. Inflation is down but still well above healthy levels. Industry experts expect to see the insurance industry start raising premiums in 2025 suggesting car insurance could go up by 50% in major areas.

I've lived through two of these inflation events, one in the 1970s and again in the 2006 time frame. I've never seen it this bad for this long with no light in sight.

One element that has always raised a bit of concern in me was/is these $100K vehicles offered to middle class folk who do not have the kinds of resources to spend that much on a vehicle, by setting up high payments for 6 or 7 years, in order for these hard workers TO afford the vehicle. (false economy)

This exacerbates setting folks up to fail in the light of having a payment that would choke a horse, and the vehicle breaks down in an expensive way. The salt in the wound is selling an extended warranty in addition to this massive indebtedness. (more false economy)

I also lived through the Jimmy Carter 21% prime lending rate years, the "Reagaomic" years where we worker ants were told to tighten our belts. What an insult to common sense that was. The AIG/ 2008 recession issue was a scary thing, eh?

I attended an event in the early 80's The Economist who hosted that event was Johnathon Pond. This was before Dave Ramsey hit the stage.
Mr. Pond spent a huge amount of time on Automotive debt and how the long game is affected by Madison Avenue Ad agencies and bean counters of the automotive megalith put on the shoulders of the unsuspecting among us. That was a real eye-opener. He was looking at the typical 40 year career of the typical College grad and that 4 decade picture of how financial decisions made overall affect the bottom line at retirement.

For a manufactured item (automobiles) which is, by design, on a path to net zero sum (total depreciation to zero), The entire untruth expressed to a new car customer of "protecting your new investment" by the finance vultures who suck even more moola from people for window etching, paint and upholstery protection, lost keys protection, tire and wheel protection, etc., sickens me severely. I was with a customer of mine (a female) who wanted an advocate with her to thwart the vultures recently, where the finance department had these scams down to a science.

Before we entered the Land of Oz (finance office), a gorgeous, well articulating woman approached her (us) with a print out of all these "investments" totaling over 4 grand! My customer said no, and as we were ushered into the posh office of the Wizard, I observed his (the finance guy) 5000 dollar Armani suit, gold nugget bracelet, a Rado watch, high dollar shoes, sporting a 200 dollar coif.... and he got visibly bristly when my customer confirmed that no was the summary answer to the list. He snarked about her making a mistake by not "investing" in her new car. Robert Tilton had nothing on this slickster! The remainder of the transaction proved to me that global warming isn't everywhere

.

1999 White C5 Coupe · Aug 19, 2024

Sherman Bird said:
One element that has always raised a bit of concern in me was/is these $100K vehicles offered to middle class folk who do not have the kinds of resources to spend that much on a vehicle, by setting up high payments for 6 or 7 years, in order for these hard workers TO afford the vehicle. (false economy)

This exacerbates setting folks up to fail in the light of having a payment that would choke a horse, and the vehicle breaks down in an expensive way. The salt in the wound is selling an extended warranty in addition to this massive indebtedness. (more false economy)

I also lived through the Jimmy Carter 21% prime lending rate years, the "Reagaomic" years where we worker ants were told to tighten our belts. What an insult to common sense that was. The AIG/ 2008 recession issue was a scary thing, eh?

I attended an event in the early 80's The Economist who hosted that event was Johnathon Pond. This was before Dave Ramsey hit the stage.
Mr. Pond spent a huge amount of time on Automotive debt and how the long game is affected by Madison Avenue Ad agencies and bean counters of the automotive megalith put on the shoulders of the unsuspecting among us. That was a real eye-opener. He was looking at the typical 40 year career of the typical College grad and that 4 decade picture of how financial decisions made overall affect the bottom line at retirement.

For a manufactured item (automobiles) which is, by design, on a path to net zero sum (total depreciation to zero), The entire untruth expressed to a new car customer of "protecting your new investment" by the finance vultures who suck even more moola from people for window etching, paint and upholstery protection, lost keys protection, tire and wheel protection, etc., sickens me severely. I was with a customer of mine (a female) who wanted an advocate with her to thwart the vultures recently, where the finance department had these scams down to a science.

Before we entered the Land of Oz (finance office), a gorgeous, well articulating woman approached her (us) with a print out of all these "investments" totaling over 4 grand! My customer said no, and as we were ushered into the posh office of the Wizard, I observed his (the finance guy) 5000 dollar Armani suit, gold nugget bracelet, a Rado watch, high dollar shoes, sporting a 200 dollar coif.... and he got visibly bristly when my customer confirmed that no was the summary answer to the list. He snarked about her making a mistake by not "investing" in her new car. Robert Tilton had nothing on this slickster! The remainder of the transaction proved to me that global warming isn't everywhere .

You make a lot of valid and intelligent assertions. You didn’t mention the latest “Bidenominics” inflation era, with massive consumer inflation - which not only affected prices and availability, but property taxes. While a complex issue, it has permanently raises prices on many, many consumer goods.

My wife and I lived through some of the craziness you mentioned. We bought our first house in 1979 with a conventional home loan, with an APR of 14.5%.

There will always be people that are not responsible with their life, health, money and purchases. That is why we have so many people that rely on government (taxpayer) services and programs. Every look up how many people do not pay ANY federal income tax in the USA?

And - there will always be people who work hard at trying to con people out of their money, such as the examples you provided.

How many people don’t have money for basic living expenses, including medical costs, but have money for tattoos, lottery tickets, marijuana, cigarettes, wild-color hair dye, a daily Starbucks coffee, etc.?

SOME people that buy $100,000 vehicles should not be buying them. They don’t have the resources or common sense and should avoid them. They are often the people that buy other items that they cannot afford in the long term, or simply do not need (larger homes, expensive clothing, jewelry, etc.). Vehicles are just one item on their list of “must have” items.

Sherman Bird · Aug 19, 2024

1999 White C5 Coupe said:
You make a lot of valid and intelligent assertions. You didn’t mention the latest “Bidenominics” inflation era, with massive consumer inflation - which not only affected prices and availability, but property taxes. While a complex issue, it has permanently raises prices on many, many consumer goods.

My wife and I lived through some of the craziness you mentioned. We bought our first house in 1979 with a conventional home loan, with an APR of 14.5%.

There will always be people that are not responsible with their life, health, money and purchases. That is why we have so many people that rely on government (taxpayer) services and programs. Every look up how many people do not pay ANY federal income tax in the USA?

And - there will always be people who work hard at trying to con people out of their money, such as the examples you provided.

How many people don’t have money for basic living expenses, including medical costs, but have money for tattoos, lottery tickets, marijuana, cigarettes, wild-color hair dye, a daily Starbucks coffee, etc.?

SOME people that buy $100,000 vehicles should not be buying them. They don’t have the resources or common sense and should avoid them. They are often the people that buy other items that they cannot afford in the long term, or simply do not need (larger homes, expensive clothing, jewelry, etc.). Vehicles are just one item on their list of “must have” items.

My late Maternal Grandmother was a young adult in the beginning of the Great Depression. She often commented how, regardless of abject poverty, how people ALWAYS managed to get their cigarettes or other form of tobacco. Her own father chewed tobacco, and I remember him spitting on the floor of the house! The other "vice" was alcohol, legal or not, these people obtained it as a high priority.

I was a transmission specialist at a huge Pontiac/ GMC dealer in the very early '90s. The used car department sent me an F-150 to assess the transmission problem. It was a repo. The cab was literally COVERED in scratch-off lotto tickets. I guessed that there was enough spent on those to have paid off the truck.

There are stories of exceptions and "they did it to themselves" going around.

"There will always be the poor among us", said a fellow a couple of thousand years ago.

Docwagon1776 · Aug 19, 2024

1999 White C5 Coupe said:
How many people don’t have money for basic living expenses, including medical costs, but have money for tattoos, lottery tickets, marijuana, cigarettes, wild-color hair dye, a daily Starbucks coffee, etc.?

I believe it was Ric Edelman who said some variation of "Poor people don't stay poor because of lack of money, but due to lack of understanding of money." Combined with "no matter what you make, somebody is getting by on 10% less. Figure out how they are doing it, and there's 10% you can save for retirement."

I read those books 21 years ago now because I knew nothing about personal finance and my situation showed it. At the time I had started with nothing and had most of it left. Now I'm on pace to retire a millionaire at 52, and did it on a single income very middle class salary. Some people get wiped out due to divorce or ill health or whatnot, but most people are just ignorant with how to maximize what they have and don't know what they don't know.

Deltron · Aug 19, 2024

RodRamCar said:
my local ram dealer @HEMIMANN said that the vehicle they're selling at this other dealership (keep it secret for now until i find out what they'll do to the listing after I recommended they neeed to mention it has no remaining factory warranty and could cause legal problems for them) originated in Canada and because of this, it cannot transfer the warranty coverage to the US, once imported. The dealership knows they got the vehicle at an auction that imports cars from CAnada into the U.S. They cannot play dumb and say they didn't know the vehicle came in to the US from Canada. With Larry miller Ram in Boise confirming that the vehicle cannot be covered and is a 2022 Ram with 5k miles and no coverage left, I offered to buy the truck for 20% under listing price and they'd be wise to list the fact the warranty is null andvoid for any future buyer. If not, be prepared to face legal circumstances not from me but from someone.

We've bought a couple of trucks from the dealer that were from Canada. There's a procedure the dealer does if it's a EAM dealer that does transfer the warranty.

We've had no warranty issues on these trucks.

Tulecreeper · Aug 19, 2024

Docwagon1776 said:
I believe it was Ric Edelman who said some variation of "Poor people don't stay poor because of lack of money, but due to lack of understanding of money." Combined with "no matter what you make, somebody is getting by on 10% less. Figure out how they are doing it, and there's 10% you can save for retirement."

I read those books 21 years ago now because I knew nothing about personal finance and my situation showed it. At the time I had started with nothing and had most of it left. Now I'm on pace to retire a millionaire at 52, and did it on a single income very middle class salary. Some people get wiped out due to divorce or ill health or whatnot, but most people are just ignorant with how to maximize what they have and don't know what they don't know.

Agreed - although I don't advertise my income or net $$$.

Docwagon1776 · Aug 19, 2024

Tulecreeper said:
Agreed - although I don't advertise my income or net $$$.

I wish more people had discussed it when I was young. If I'd learned how the successful people did it as well as how the failures got there, it would have been valuable info. Maybe I wouldn't have gotten the value of it then, but maybe I wouldn't have wasted so many years and started in the hole.

I'm well past the notion that talking about money is taboo and generalized statements on a forum isn't exactly posting a treasure map to my doubloons. I made sure to talk to normalize talking about money, investing, pitfalls, etc. with my son from a very early age and it's made a big difference. The military teaches financial knowledge classes now instead of just leaving young soldiers to learn for themselves at the hands of the predatory lenders who attach themselves like leaches to every installation, etc.

BossHogg · Aug 20, 2024

Docwagon1776 said:
I wish more people had discussed it when I was young. If I'd learned how the successful people did it as well as how the failures got there, it would have been valuable info.

Luckily, my Dad and Grandfather (who provided for his family during the great depression) taught me early on how to invest in my future, and I did. Starting with my paper route at 12 years old, I started investing. Yes, a few times I had to make decisions, a greedy want over my future but I always sided with my future. Now that I am retired, I can look back and say I'm glad I had a Dad and grandfather who taught me.

My wife and I enjoy a comfortable retirement, we are not rich but comfortable. We own everything, we have new vehicles, a fishing boat, a camper, able to make monthly donations to our charities, and money to spoil our grandchildren.

My kids (we have 5 boys), all married but one, did not take my investment advice in their earlier years, they do now.

Scottly · Aug 20, 2024

Sherman Bird said:
This exacerbates setting folks up to fail

This is not a personal attack on you Sherman...But this statement irks me. If I hand a guy a parachute and tell him to jump out of a plane, knowing the pack has no chute in it, have I set him up to fail....Or should the dumb SOB check to see what I handed him? We live in a country of people that absolutely WILL NOT accept accountability for their actions. When you go into an F&I office, decline that which you don't want. Don't buy that which you cannot afford payments on, or can't pay cash for. Don't justify YOUR bad decisions by pointing fingers at people when you should have done your homework. Over and over and over again, stupid blames someone else...The student loan debacle is the shining **** example of all of this. You borrowed it, pay it back.....You bought that car, pay back the loan or get it repo'd....Geez, WTF is so hard to understand about this.

Scottly · Aug 20, 2024

Docwagon1776 said:
I believe it was Ric Edelman who said some variation of "Poor people don't stay poor because of lack of money, but due to lack of understanding of money."

Wealthy kids grow up learning how to create wealth from their parents, poor kids learn how to stay poor from their parents. I grew up poor...I have a large net worth. I went out and learned how to do it. Everyone can, so few do.

Docwagon1776 · Aug 20, 2024

Scottly said:
Wealthy kids grow up learning how to create wealth from their parents, poor kids learn how to stay poor from their parents. I grew up poor...I have a large net worth. I went out and learned how to do it. Everyone can, so few do.

We tend to think whatever we see growing up is normal, and often never stop to question it. Mental inertia is just a fact, we can't rehash every decision every time we make it. Add in it's tough to know our own blind spots or "know what we don't know". It took me awhile to realize it, for sure. I went to work as a security contractor post 9/11, roughly quadrupling my salary but knowing it was a short term gig. I figured it was the first time in my life I had any money, I better figure out how to use it. It was, quite literally, life changing.

I read a ton and took a few classes, but the two that helped the most were The Richest Man in Bablyon and Ric Edelman's The Truth About Money.

Scottly · Aug 20, 2024

Docwagon1776 said:
We tend to think whatever we see growing up is normal, and often never stop to question it. Mental inertia is just a fact, we can't rehash every decision every time we make it. Add in it's tough to know our own blind spots or "know what we don't know". It took me awhile to realize it, for sure. I went to work as a security contractor post 9/11, roughly quadrupling my salary but knowing it was a short term gig. I figured it was the first time in my life I had any money, I better figure out how to use it. It was, quite literally, life changing.

I read a ton and took a few classes, but the two that helped the most were The Richest Man in Bablyon and Ric Edelman's The Truth About Money.

I'm not a Dave Ramsey apostle, but I have to say that a lot of people could help themselves by following that guy's path to living debt free and building savings. There are some things I disagree with that he says...But often when i see people attacking him, it's usually some talking head trying to make a name for themselves. His methods may not be right for me or you, but I guarantee a few million others should follow his advice.

Docwagon1776 · Aug 20, 2024

Scottly said:
I'm not a Dave Ramsey apostle, but I have to say that a lot of people could help themselves by following that guy's path to living debt free and building savings. There are some things I disagree with that he says...But often when i see people attacking him, it's usually some talking head trying to make a name for themselves. His methods may not be right for me or you, but I guarantee a few million others should follow his advice.

It's probably as close to an "easy button" as there is to a reasonable middle class existence with low risk/medium reward mindset. It's not for me, I'm willing to use debt when it's advantageous to me, but I agree it's something a lot of people can (and have) benefitted from.

Tulecreeper · Aug 20, 2024

Docwagon1776 said:
I wish more people had discussed it when I was young. If I'd learned how the successful people did it as well as how the failures got there, it would have been valuable info. Maybe I wouldn't have gotten the value of it then, but maybe I wouldn't have wasted so many years and started in the hole.

I'm well past the notion that talking about money is taboo and generalized statements on a forum isn't exactly posting a treasure map to my doubloons. I made sure to talk to normalize talking about money, investing, pitfalls, etc. with my son from a very early age and it's made a big difference. The military teaches financial knowledge classes now instead of just leaving young soldiers to learn for themselves at the hands of the predatory lenders who attach themselves like leaches to every installation, etc.

I was lucky. My dad, although an old Kentucky-born poor boy, figured it out by the time I was in my teens and passed on what he learned to me. He was able to bail out of the rat race at 58. I was able to retire at 55, and now have 5 income streams so didn't do too bad. We're not really wealthy, but we eat well and put money away, so there's that.

New truck prices are insane

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