TO DIESEL OR NOT TO DIESEL THAT IS THE QUESTIONS

You certainly got a rare jewel then...

THE reason I left the dealership and got out of that business entirely was because of the 6.0 and 6.4. I got tired of getting yelled at for problems that I didn't create and couldn't really solve. Those engines were just problematic by nature.

tharshtx said:

Just went from Cummins to hemi 6.4. could not be happier. Diesel wore me out. Every system but AC had major work done.

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Owner of two Cummins Rams, and I always tell people the engine will last forever, but every part bolted to it will fail at some point. Told a friend that before he bought his 6 years ago...He recently reminded me that I was correct.

Diesel all the way. For many reasons. They pay for themselves in better mileage, better performance, longevity and better resale value.

Iin Nevada diesel fuel costs less than regular gas.

Tulecreeper said:

Not agreeing here. All the trucks I've ever had were gassers and every one of them lasted me between 13 and 24 years with minimal repair costs. Just regular maintenance and the occasional replaced part. I think one and a half to two and a half decades of mechanically solid vehicles is a pretty solid batting average.

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Difference is the average person doesn't take care of their vehicle. I have a 2013 ram 3500 with almost 600,000 maintenance is the key. but with those gassers what is the mileage on them. Before you traded them off.

truck2569 said:

Difference is the average person doesn't take care of their vehicle. I have a 2013 ram 3500 with almost 600,000 maintenance is the key. but with those gassers what is the mileage on them. Before you traded them off.

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I didn't actually trade them, I sold them privately. They only had between 175k (13 years) and 200k (23 years) on them. Although they were my EDD, the majority of those years I had them I also had a work truck I drove every day so 500 - 600 miles a month was about the average I put on them. And that counts hunting trips from CA to Canada, and numerous trips up and down the west Coast. I picked up my current RAM in March 2023, and after 17 months I just rolled over 7000 miles - including a 1600 miles trip across country.

nlambert182 said:

You certainly got a rare jewel then...

THE reason I left the dealership and got out of that business entirely was because of the 6.0 and 6.4. I got tired of getting yelled at for problems that I didn't create and couldn't really solve. Those engines were just problematic by nature.

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Yeah a LOT of the issues with the 6.0 and 6.4 were caused almost exclusively by Ford telling Navistar they wanted more power out of them. The de-rated engines put in larger trucks, from what I understand, weren't as plagued by issues.

There's also a lot to be said for care of them (I know you've said you care well for yours). There are a great many people who see DIESEL and think they can rag on it all day long... which wasn't the case for the 6.4 especially, the 6.0 could take a bit more but not much. If you threw a tune at EITHER of those with no supporting mods, the motor was toast, and sadly there were a LOT of people throwing tunes on them to make power because they were cheap...and then blew up.

I had a good 6.0, and one that gave me some issues (mostly with injectors). My dad has a 6.4 he bought new in '08 that he's STILL driving every day to this day. He needs a new box and the power mirrors don't work anymore, but he's never had a driveline issue yet.

2003F350 said:

See, I'll give you another anecdote - I had an '03 6.0, bone stock, that I bought with something like 70k on it, ONLY issue I had right away was the unison ring froze up (discovered it sat and idled a lot, was used for lawn care). After that I really didn't have many problems with it at all, and those that I did have were either related to rust or sensors aging and dying, not mechanical components.

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Good to hear they built at least one good one. But saying the 6.0 was a bad motor is hardly anecdotal. Literally everyone I know that owned/owns an 03/04 6.0 Ford PoSD has had major problems with it. I don't think you have to dig very hard to find out that that was one of Ford's worst diesels ever. They sued Navistar over it.

Even a class action suit:

2003F350 said:

Yeah a LOT of the issues with the 6.0 and 6.4 were caused almost exclusively by Ford telling Navistar they wanted more power out of them. The de-rated engines put in larger trucks, from what I understand, weren't as plagued by issues.

There's also a lot to be said for care of them (I know you've said you care well for yours). There are a great many people who see DIESEL and think they can rag on it all day long... which wasn't the case for the 6.4 especially, the 6.0 could take a bit more but not much. If you threw a tune at EITHER of those with no supporting mods, the motor was toast, and sadly there were a LOT of people throwing tunes on them to make power because they were cheap...and then blew up.

I had a good 6.0, and one that gave me some issues (mostly with injectors). My dad has a 6.4 he bought new in '08 that he's STILL driving every day to this day. He needs a new box and the power mirrors don't work anymore, but he's never had a driveline issue yet.

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Eh... to some degree Ford pushed it but what REALLY happened is that Navistar wanted to tout being the "first" emissions compliant diesel engine that didn't use urea so they started heavily publicly advertising it's planned capabilities. The VT365 (de-rated engine) had as many or more issues than the 6.0. We had entire bus fleets out of commission to the point that the state had to provide more money to the school systems to go out and buy Freightliners and Thomas buses to try and purge the fleet mid-year. Both have the 6.7 Cummins in them.

Ford got really antsy wanting to show the new 7.3 replacement to compete against Cummins future release of their new engine (the 6.7 at the time), and between the 2 PR teams pressuring, Navistar released the (VT365) 6.0 with less than a year of testing.

At the time, a lot of truck manufacturers were tinkering with SCR (Europe was way ahead) but no one had it nailed down. Mack had been testing out SCR on their E7 engines and Cummins was testing with their L9 engines. All required urea, and Navistar was convinced they could do it without the need for SCR.


When the 6.0 failed and Ford started screaming lawsuit, Navistar panicked and decided to release the 6.4 (which they had just started developing) with literally less than 200 hrs of testing. The Maxxforce 7 (6.4) was built right here in Huntsville, AL and I got to go out to the plant the day they rolled the first one off the line. The line wasn't even fully operational when they rolled out the 6.4. It never got finished.

And that is why Ford now produces their own engine. Ford approached Cummins, but Cummins has an exclusivity agreement with Ram for the light duty (2500/3500) market, so it isn't sold to anyone else for that purpose.

The Navistar plant here in Huntsville dropped the Maxxforce 5, 7, 9, and 10 engine lines in 2015. They knew it was coming, and their medium duties started getting offered with the 6.7 Cummins back in 2013. As of today, the plant only produces Class 8 engines for the heavy duty market.

This is my second Ram 2500 with the 6.4. MPG on the highway if I set the cruise control and leave it alone (seldom happens admittedly), is usually about 16-17. If I'm pulling my boat (21' Bassboat) it drops to about 10 MPG. In town, normal stop and go traffic, I average about 12-13 MPG. I couldn't justify the additional $10k for a diesel for the towing I do, nor the mileage. If I was going the 5th wheel route, and planned to use it regularly...I would opt for it.

1stindoor said:

This is my second Ram 2500 with the 6.4. MPG on the highway if I set the cruise control and leave it alone (seldom happens admittedly), is usually about 16-17. If I'm pulling my boat (21' Bassboat) it drops to about 10 MPG. In town, normal stop and go traffic, I average about 12-13 MPG. I couldn't justify the additional $10k for a diesel for the towing I do, nor the mileage. If I was going the 5th wheel route, and planned to use it regularly...I would opt for it.

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If I use CC and leave my MDS engaged at 60 MPH on flat terrain, I can usually get 20+ MPG. That's rare, though, as I live pretty rural and most of the main roads are only 45 - 50 MPH and I seldom can go more than a mile before it drops to 35 again so my all around MPG runs about 13.5 - but just driving around like that I usually override my MDS so that's going to drop my mileage somewhat. At 50 MPH with MDS engaged I can get 24 MPG.

I am at 18.5city/22hwy with my CTD bone stock. I'm mid process of making some "repairs" to mine now. I'm expecting at least 20city/25hwy city afterwards, if it follows the trendline of my last 2.

nlambert182 said:

I am at 18.5city/22hwy with my CTD bone stock. I'm mid process of making some "repairs" to mine now. I'm expecting at least 20city/25hwy city afterwards, if it follows the trendline of my last 2.

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Yeah, I miss the 3.42's my 18 had. I got similar results as you with that truck. But with the 3.73's my 22 came with (no choice), mileage has taken a bit of a hit.

jejb said:

Yeah, I miss the 3.42's my 18 had. I got similar results as you with that truck. But with the 3.73's my 22 came with (no choice), mileage has taken a bit of a hit.

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So far... I'm one tank of fuel through since the repairs. Hand calculated, I was hitting 24 mpg on my way to and from work.

Tulecreeper said:

I didn't actually trade them, I sold them privately. They only had between 175k (13 years) and 200k (23 years) on them. Although they were my EDD, the majority of those years I had them I also had a work truck I drove every day so 500 - 600 miles a month was about the average I put on them. And that counts hunting trips from CA to Canada, and numerous trips up and down the west Coast. I picked up my current RAM in March 2023, and after 17 months I just rolled over 7000 miles - including a 1600 miles trip across country.

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I used my truck for work pulling a gooseneck trailer the gassers couldn't handle the stress. I have had my truck since 2016. Sure, the gassers could outrun me, but I could out pull them going up a hill. To each their own preference.