5th Gen performance with the SO engine

[Wild one]

The 6.4 SRT should be more than a match for the SO though. Not fair to compare the 2500 6.4 vs a passenger car engine.

They aren't putting the engines in a pass car,so you can't use the cars 6.4 as a comparision.I've never heard anybody say the HO I6 is a pass car engine

 

[ramffml]

They aren't putting the engines in a pass car,so you can't use the cars 6.4 as a comparision.I've never heard anybody say the HO I6 is a pass car engine

The hurricane is a passenger car engine, just like the 5.7 hemi it will be their main engine used in larger cars and jeeps and 1500s. It's not going to go in the 2500 like the BGE.

Somebody did a 0 to 60 on YT of the 6.4 SRT in a grand wagoneer vs a SO and the 6.4 was either quicker or pretty much a draw.

 

[Wild one]

The hurricane is a passenger car engine, just like the 5.7 hemi it will be their main engine used in larger cars and jeeps and 1500s. It's not going to go in the 2500 like the BGE.

Somebody did a 0 to 60 on YT of the 6.4 SRT in a grand wagoneer vs a SO and the 6.4 was either quicker or pretty much a draw.

Hunt up this video,as the only video i've seen was the HO and it was beating the 6.4 SRT Jeep by a fair bit on a 1/4 mile .Fikacs test is showing a mid 13 on his new HO truck,and that's with less then 300 miles on it,and the tank still full of 87,takes a good running SRT Jeep to run a mid 13 stock at 2,000ft DA.
I'm no fan of the engine,but i'm also not going to discredit it's power either.
Point out this passenger car that has the I6 in it,there isn't one,lol

 

[ramffml]

Hunt up this video,as the only video i've seen was the HO and it was beating the 6.4 SRT Jeep by a fair bit on a 1/4 mile .Fikacs test is showing a mid 13 on his new HO truck,and that's with less then 300 miles on it,and the tank still full of 87,takes a good running SRT Jeep to run a mid 13 stock at 2,000ft DA.
I'm no fan of the engine,but i'm also not going to discredit it's power either.
Point out this passenger car that has the I6 in it,there isn't one,lol

Not discrediting the power they put out, that was never the issue. I'll try and find the video back in a bit (may have to give me a few hours), it was about a year ago IIRC.

"Passenger car" engine just means "light duty", like the 3.6 pentastar and the 5.7 (to an extant) these engines are designed for passenger duty cycles, like the cars and small vans and the 1500s too. Heavy duty truck engines like the BGE are down on HP/Torque to extend their duty cycle (you know this, why am I saying this).

My point a few posts ago was that it's not a fair comparison to compare the SO vs the BGE 6.4, lets just compare it to the SRT 6.4. The BGE is not a race engine and its tuned with that in mind.

 

[Wild one]

Not discrediting the power they put out, that was never the issue. I'll try and find the video back in a bit (may have to give me a few hours), it was about a year ago IIRC.

"Passenger car" engine just means "light duty", like the 3.6 pentastar and the 5.7 (to an extant) these engines are designed for passenger duty cycles, like the cars and small vans and the 1500s too. Heavy duty truck engines like the BGE are down on HP/Torque to extend their duty cycle (you know this, why am I saying this).

My point a few posts ago was that it's not a fair comparison to compare the SO vs the BGE 6.4, lets just compare it to the SRT 6.4. The BGE is not a race engine and its tuned with that in mind.

My buddies cammed / long tubes / and Johan tuned SRT 6.4 Jeep only runs mid 13's at 3,000 feet. Even the SRT 6.4 is gonna be struggling to keep up to a stock SO truck,let alone the HO version.
BTW all 6.4's after 17 are the BGE block including the SRT 6.4,it hasn't been strictly a truck engine for the last 7 years,lol.
BGE is the block,not the engine these days,now you have to specify whether it's a truck 6.4 or a car 6.4,as both are using the same BGE block,BGE is cast right into the block on all 6.4's after 17

 

[ramffml]

My buddies cammed / long tubes / and Johan tuned SRT 6.4 Jeep only runs mid 13's at 3,000 feet. Even the SRT 6.4 is gonna be struggling to keep up to a stock SO truck,let alone the HO version.
BTW all 6.4's after 17 are the BGE block including the SRT 6.4,it hasn't been strictly a truck engine for the last 7 years,lol.
BGE is the block,not the engine these days,now you have to specify whether it's a truck 6.4 or a car 6.4,as both are using the same BGE block,BGE is cast right into the block on all 6.4's after 17

Yes I'm aware of them sharing the block, they remain different engines with different purposes in mind and different tuning plus hp numbers as a result.

I'm saying the 2500 bge is not a fair comparison, the srt (or 6.2 hellcat/redeye) is. That's it, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Wild one]

Yes I'm aware of them sharing the block, they remain different engines with different purposes in mind and different tuning plus hp numbers as a result.

I'm saying the 2500 bge is not a fair comparison, the srt (or 6.2 hellcat/redeye) is. That's it, nothing more nothing less.

But and it's a big "but" they never put the SRT 6.4 in a truck,so you can't even use it as a comparision.Lets keep it on topic,we're comparing engines they actually put in the trucks,and you could never get the truck 6.4 in a 1500, the only 1500 that got a 6.2 was the TRX and it's not really a truck in the truck sense,while the SO I6 is in all the new 2025 1500's

 

[ramffml]

But and it's a big "but" they never put the SRT 6.4 in a truck,so you can't even use it as a comparision.Lets keep it on topic,we're comparing engines they actually put in the trucks,and you could never get the truck 6.4 in a 1500, the only 1500 that got a 6.2 was the TRX and it's not really a truck in the truck sense,while the SO I6 is in all the new 2025 1500's

I think were mixing engines and classifications here.

The 6.4 BGE is a "truck engine", its in a class along with the Ford 7.3 and the GM 6.6 which these engines are found 100% only in 3/4 ton and 1+ ton trucks. You can't get these in 1500's.

1500 truck engines are different, they are all passenger car engines. The 5.7 hemi, the GM v8s, the Ford 5.0 and EB engines are all engines found in cars, suvs, and the half ton segment, but not in the 2500's.

So: keeping that classification and target application in mind, and remembering that the hurricane is a passenger car engine used in cars/suvs/half tons, it's only fair to keep the BGE out of this equation completely; the BGE is built for low down torque and duty cycle, it's detuned.

The hurricane is a car engine; currently it's only in SUV's and 1500s, but its also supposed to hit the 2025 charger and probably the Jeep GC in the future.

So the 485 hp 6.4 is more than capable of holding its own vs the hurricanes. It fits in the middle between them not only in HP but also in tests I've seen. Car and driver did an article, they tested the 6.4 SRT vs the HO in the Grand Wagoneer as both engines are available in that SUV, and the SRT beat or matched it in several tests; wins some, loses some. The HO in the Wagoneer is detuned a little vs the HO in the 1500, but still. There is nothing wrong with the SRT when it comes to performance, even 20 years after the hemi was designed (yes the 6.4 came out later but its all the same design).

You will never find the Hurricane in the 2500. It won't survive the duty cycle like the BGE can. And if Ram was stupid enough to try, they would have done it already (we know they're keeping the 6.4 BGE indefinitely for now) and secondly it would be seriously detuned as well. I'd say it loses 50 to 60 hp or more as well, just like the 6.4 does in SRT vs BGE forms.

How do I know this? Because I've watched a number of engineering videos including one from Ford's chief engineer where they come right out and say that the ecoboost does not have the duty cycle nor MPG to see usage in the F250 so they had to come out with a massive 7.3 to do this instead. Hurricane will be no different. You can't build one engine that works in a charger/SUV and a 2500/3500 without serious compromises in one or both applications.

Only one engine that I'm aware of that doesn't fit this: that's the 5.7 hemi which did see usage in both cars and the 2500, but it was also detuned in the 2500 and was dog slow and poor on gas. It did survive the beating remarkably well, good ole cast iron blister for the win there.

As for the TRX, well I don't what you're thinking there but it's literally the same truck as the new RHO which runs the HO and the TRX will eat its lunch. I can't think of a example which proves my point better; same truck, same application, same focus on raw performance and dealing with heat rejection at high desert temps etc etc, and the TRX comes out on top.

Anyway. I got nothing against the hurricane, just won't buy one in a truck. And lets also remember the point about the hemi being 20 years old, the hurricane is new and fresh and can take advantage of improvements in tech (like direct injection) but imagine what they could do with a new and fresh v8 design, hmm? One can dream.

Can't find the video back, but here is the car and driver test:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41589986/jeep-hurricane-inline-six-grand-wagoneer-tested-performance/

 

[Wild one]

I think were mixing engines and classifications here.

The 6.4 BGE is a "truck engine", its in a class along with the Ford 7.3 and the GM 6.6 which these engines are found 100% only in 3/4 ton and 1+ ton trucks. You can't get these in 1500's.

1500 truck engines are different, they are all passenger car engines. The 5.7 hemi, the GM v8s, the Ford 5.0 and EB engines are all engines found in cars, suvs, and the half ton segment, but not in the 2500's.

So: keeping that classification and target application in mind, and remembering that the hurricane is a passenger car engine used in cars/suvs/half tons, it's only fair to keep the BGE out of this equation completely; the BGE is built for low down torque and duty cycle, it's detuned.

The hurricane is a car engine; currently it's only in SUV's and 1500s, but its also supposed to hit the 2025 charger and probably the Jeep GC in the future.

So the 485 hp 6.4 is more than capable of holding its own vs the hurricanes. It fits in the middle between them not only in HP but also in tests I've seen. Car and driver did an article, they tested the 6.4 SRT vs the HO in the Grand Wagoneer as both engines are available in that SUV, and the SRT beat or matched it in several tests; wins some, loses some. The HO in the Wagoneer is detuned a little vs the HO in the 1500, but still. There is nothing wrong with the SRT when it comes to performance, even 20 years after the hemi was designed (yes the 6.4 came out later but its all the same design).

You will never find the Hurricane in the 2500. It won't survive the duty cycle like the BGE can. And if Ram was stupid enough to try, they would have done it already (we know they're keeping the 6.4 BGE indefinitely for now) and secondly it would be seriously detuned as well. I'd say it loses 50 to 60 hp or more as well, just like the 6.4 does in SRT vs BGE forms.

How do I know this? Because I've watched a number of engineering videos including one from Ford's chief engineer where they come right out and say that the ecoboost does not have the duty cycle nor MPG to see usage in the F250 so they had to come out with a massive 7.3 to do this instead. Hurricane will be no different. You can't build one engine that works in a charger/SUV and a 2500/3500 without serious compromises in one or both applications.

Only one engine that I'm aware of that doesn't fit this: that's the 5.7 hemi which did see usage in both cars and the 2500, but it was also detuned in the 2500 and was dog slow and poor on gas. It did survive the beating remarkably well, good ole cast iron blister for the win there.

As for the TRX, well I don't what you're thinking there but it's literally the same truck as the new RHO which runs the HO and the TRX will eat its lunch. I can't think of a example which proves my point better; same truck, same application, same focus on raw performance and dealing with heat rejection at high desert temps etc etc, and the TRX comes out on top.

Anyway. I got nothing against the hurricane, just won't buy one in a truck. And lets also remember the point about the hemi being 20 years old, the hurricane is new and fresh and can take advantage of improvements in tech (like direct injection) but imagine what they could do with a new and fresh v8 design, hmm? One can dream.

Can't find the video back, but here is the car and driver test:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41589986/jeep-hurricane-inline-six-grand-wagoneer-tested-performance/

You missed this fact,lol.You put both engines in identical weight vehicles,and it looks like the I6 is gonna win every contest.Not really a fair test when the I6 is packing more weight.They don't say how much more weight it's packing,but i wouldn't be surprised if it's not at least 300lbs more,and that's definitely going to give the lighter 6.4 equipped Jeep a hell'va an advantage.I'm definitely still an old school pushrod V8 guy,but the new I6 is proving to more then hold it's own weight in regards to the old standby V8,time will tell how it holds up though,if it doesn't last like the old Hemi's do,it's not going to be worth much in the long run.


"Stellantis’ new twin-turbocharged “Hurricane” inline-six engine is proving its worth in our testing, beating the old Hemi V-8 in both acceleration and fuel economy. Test results for the 2023 Jeep Grand Wagoneer L with the new 510-horsepower version of the twin-turbo 3.0-liter inline-six show that it’s both quicker and more efficient than the 2022 Grand Wagoneer with the 6.4-liter V-8—even though the six-cylinder SUV we tested was the bigger, heavier long-wheelbase L model."

 

[ramffml]

You missed this fact,lol.You put both engines in identical weight vehicles,and it looks like the I6 is gonna win every contest.Not really a fair test when the I6 is packing more weight.They don't say how much more weight it's packing,but i wouldn't be surprised if it's not at least 300lbs more,and that's definitely going to give the lighter 6.4 equipped Jeep a hell'va an advantage.I'm definitely still an old school pushrod V8 guy,but the new I6 is proving to more then hold it's own weight in regards to the old standby V8,time will tell how it holds up though,if it doesn't last like the old Hemi's do,it's not going to be worth much in the long run.


"Stellantis’ new twin-turbocharged “Hurricane” inline-six engine is proving its worth in our testing, beating the old Hemi V-8 in both acceleration and fuel economy. Test results for the 2023 Jeep Grand Wagoneer L with the new 510-horsepower version of the twin-turbo 3.0-liter inline-six show that it’s both quicker and more efficient than the 2022 Grand Wagoneer with the 6.4-liter V-8—even though the six-cylinder SUV we tested was the bigger, heavier long-wheelbase L model."

I didn't miss it, just didn't mention it because the difference in weight is only 102 pounds. At 6 pounds per gallon of gas, a full tank of gas vs empty would have the same/greater effect.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that, I'm just not buying the hype nor the engine

 

[Wild one]

I didn't miss it, just didn't mention it because the difference in weight is only 102 pounds. At 6 pounds per gallon of gas, a full tank of gas vs empty would have the same/greater effect.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that, I'm just not buying the hype nor the engine

Old school rule is a 100lbs = a tenth,or basically 1 full length

 

[Docwagon1776]

From what I've heard the SO and HO are identical internally, all forged internals. The difference is the turbo's, tuning, fuel system and charge coolers. At least that's what I've heard from a tech friend that has worked on them in the Wagoneer's.

I'm sure the SO's can be pushed up to HO levels of power with tuning alone, but not sure there's much to be had beyond that without changing parts. While the HO's have a lot more headroom.

Unless something change, pistons are supposed to be different. HO has forged pistons and lower compression ratio. SO has cast and higher compression.