6.4L Hemi vs 7.3L Ford Gasser-either in a Dually

[Toddz]

The 6.4 is a beast, I love mine and she pulls like a freight train, but I'm pulling a lot less weight than your talking about. There are reports of 6.4s with cam/lifter failures, but overall they are great trucks. I'm a Ford man, but have to admit this ram is gosh dang good. My favorite truck I've ever owned.

I don't think you could go wrong with either. The 7.3 is a beast also. But again, go into this knowing your in diesel territory (I think 10k on up is really, regardless of how they are rated) good luck.

Most of my trucks have been Fords, and I agree my 6.4 Ram is the nicest truck yet. I love it.
As for the 7.3,powerstroke they were bullet proof, but the 6.4 will out tow the pre-2003 versions. It has more gears (8 vs 4), and more hp/tq (410/429 vs 210/425).

 

[VelocityC6Z]

You're fine with the terrain you mentioned on a gas truck... good tires, good brakes, good maintenance. Secure the load, balance it, buckle up and adjust your mirrors. Choose the truck that better fits your needs... price, options, color, etc,... if you're worried about the ford issue, give yourself the peace of mind and pick the ram. It will be a less stressful experience. Knowing what you said, I would be worried the entire time I own it, that the issue is right around the corner.

I haven't seen any issue with the 6.4 platform on these forums that's as prevalent as the ford issue. Every manufacturer has a common problem area, and they all have solutions. The ford one still having an issue after recall work has been performed would be alarming for me too.

 

[ramffml]

This guy says it pulls better than his 2015 Duramax. I watched it and it pulled very well.

2020 FORD 7.3L GAS SUPERDUTY vs. DURAMAX

ＬＩＫＥ | ＣＯï¼ï¼ï¼¥ï¼®ï¼´ | ＳＨＡＲＥ | ＳＵＢＳＣＲＩＢＥTheMudbogger79 picked up a new 2020 Ford Super Duty with the new 7.3L gas offering, plus 10 speed trans. The goal was to ac...

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Yeah you can tell him to put down the Blue koolaid.

The duramax will pull that Ford all over road, it has 765 lb/ft of torque and 400 hp.

I'm sure the 7.3 is the most powerful gas out there right now, but if you see somebody saying it can pull better than a modern diesel then you can just disregard the rest of whatever he says. It ain't happening, regardless of which diesel. At that point they're blinded by "love", confirmation bias, or just plain old brand loyalty.

I wish you luck with your purchase.

 

[GonnaBuyaDually]

My buddy just ordered a Ford SD with 7.3 on Sept 20th and he just got the text saying that it is already built. He said on Monday it was going in to production and the next day they told him it was built. . So Ford is moving much faster than RAM. I would think the train ride is going to be faster too being it is not coming from Mexico. He said Ford (the company not the dealer) has been texting almost every day letting him know how the process was going. He has always been a Ram guy but wanted something different.

I ordered mine Sept 8 and no schedule yet. Only an order acknowledgment from Ford. $500 deposit. All the Ram dealers want $1500 deposit and they say 6-12 weeks. I don't believe it.

 

[GonnaBuyaDually]

Yeah you can tell him to put down the Blue koolaid.

The duramax will pull that Ford all over road, it has 765 lb/ft of torque and 400 hp.

I'm sure the 7.3 is the most powerful gas out there right now, but if you see somebody saying it can pull better than a modern diesel then you can just disregard the rest of whatever he says. It ain't happening, regardless of which diesel. At that point they're blinded by "love", confirmation bias, or just plain old brand loyalty.

I wish you luck with your purchase.

If you think it's so outrageous, feel free to watch the video I posted of Colton Brown towing 32k gross in Colorado. You can literally watch him tow through the mountains as he has the camera trained on the tach and speedo.

I'm gonna guess that you haven't watched the video and would be very surprised. I've towed with a 2005 duramax LLY/LBZ and it's not a very high mark. I don't know about the 2015 Duramax though.

Watch the video and report back.

Here's what the tfl truck guys had to say about the 7.3:

"The F-250 surprised on the way up the mountain with a quick 8 min 42 sec climb. This is very quick considering most naturally-aspirated gas engines with heavy trailers are way slower than this. It was however the least efficient truck we have tested according to the trip meter at 2.2 mpg for the 8-mile climb."

That's from the guys who've literally made the best industry benchmark for towing in the world. The Ike Gauntlet 8% grade tow test in Colorado. Their testing is literally the driving force behind these manufacturers' one-upsmanship of the last few years.

 

[GonnaBuyaDually]

I'd suggest researching all of the issues Ford is having with the 10 speed transmission. It pushed me to get the Ram 6.4 over the Ford. For example: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10189752-0001.pdf

I researched that exhaustively, and so far it seems like a single isolated issue that has been remedied.

If there is another issue, I'm unaware of it.

 

[retired]

I researched that exhaustively, and so far it seems like a single isolated issue that has been remedied.

If there is another issue, I'm unaware of it.

My buddy is a tech at a large dealership and he says no. He said they had the initial spark plug wire issue early on but said nothing since

 

[VelocityC6Z]

Yeah you can tell him to put down the Blue koolaid.

The duramax will pull that Ford all over road, it has 765 lb/ft of torque and 400 hp.

I'm sure the 7.3 is the most powerful gas out there right now, but if you see somebody saying it can pull better than a modern diesel then you can just disregard the rest of whatever he says. It ain't happening, regardless of which diesel. At that point they're blinded by "love", confirmation bias, or just plain old brand loyalty.

I wish you luck with your purchase.

The 7.3 gas ford truck in its class yes... but, there's other gas motors in cars and lighter duty trucks that have more power.

 

[GonnaBuyaDually]

The 7.3 gas ford truck in its class yes... but, there's other gas motors in cars and lighter duty trucks that have more power.

Well I don't need a lighter duty truck.

 

[ramffml]

If you think it's so outrageous, feel free to watch the video I posted of Colton Brown towing 32k gross in Colorado. You can literally watch him tow through the mountains as he has the camera trained on the tach and speedo.

I did watch it; the truck was screaming the entire time at 4000+ rpms, tranny temp was very hot etc. And he's not towing 32 gross. That's his GCWR, he's towing about 24k. The jury is still out on whether that truck can take that abuse (it's not rated by the manfufacturer to tow that much, so he's over his limits and possibly other limits like payload too.)

I'm gonna guess that you haven't watched the video and would be very surprised. I've towed with a 2005 duramax LLY/LBZ and it's not a very high mark. I don't know about the 2015 Duramax though.

There is a huge difference in engine power between the 2005, and 2015 duramax. And since 2015, the dmax has been bumped up to 910 lb/ft of torque, with the cummins putting out something insane like 1050 lb/ft. That's more than double the output of the 7.3, and it comes on at like 1800 rpms instead of 4000+.

Watch the video and report back.

Here's what the tfl truck guys had to say about the 7.3:

"The F-250 surprised on the way up the mountain with a quick 8 min 42 sec climb. This is very quick considering most naturally-aspirated gas engines with heavy trailers are way slower than this. It was however the least efficient truck we have tested according to the trip meter at 2.2 mpg for the 8-mile climb."

They're comparing their experience in the 7.3 vs other gas engines, not vs a diesel doing the same thing. They literally said that right in the quote: "considering most naturally-aspirated gas". No doubt the 7.3 is currently the most powerful gas puller out there, that wasn't the question though.

That's from the guys who've literally made the best industry benchmark for towing in the world. The Ike Gauntlet 8% grade tow test in Colorado. Their testing is literally the driving force behind these manufacturers' one-upsmanship of the last few years.

No it's not. Truck manufacturers have been one-upping eachother for decades. Today all they care about is the J2807 SAE standard which includes measuresments like 0 to 30, 0 to 60, temperatures while doing it etc. I doubt they even know TFL exists, and if you care about long term ownership you should not drive your truck up the Ike like those guys do. Slow down a little, and use the tech in the truck (like by forcing a downshift if the truck doesn't) etc etc, unless all you care about is beating your buddy up the hill by a few seconds.

The 7.3 gas ford truck in its class yes... but, there's other gas motors in cars and lighter duty trucks that have more power.

Remember the context; we're in a truck thread talking about truck gas vs truck diesel. But just like the FCA 6.4 blocks, if Ford was stuffing the 7.3 in a car they'd get far more power out of it. For truck usage, they always build their gassers for reliability and durability and cooling and low end torque, not light duty car usage. The 6.4 in a 2500 makes far less power than the 6.4 SRT in the cars, and they're actually different engines at this point with different internals as well.

 

[GonnaBuyaDually]

I did watch it; the truck was screaming the entire time at 4000+ rpms, tranny temp was very hot etc. And he's not towing 32 gross. That's his GCWR, he's towing about 24k. The jury is still out on whether that truck can take that abuse (it's not rated by the manfufacturer to tow that much, so he's over his limits and possibly other limits like payload too.)



There is a huge difference in engine power between the 2005, and 2015 duramax. And since 2015, the dmax has been bumped up to 910 lb/ft of torque, with the cummins putting out something insane like 1050 lb/ft. That's more than double the output of the 7.3, and it comes on at like 1800 rpms instead of 4000+.



They're comparing their experience in the 7.3 vs other gas engines, not vs a diesel doing the same thing. They literally said that right in the quote: "considering most naturally-aspirated gas". No doubt the 7.3 is currently the most powerful gas puller out there, that wasn't the question though.



No it's not. Truck manufacturers have been one-upping eachother for decades. Today all they care about is the J2807 SAE standard which includes measuresments like 0 to 30, 0 to 60, temperatures while doing it etc. I doubt they even know TFL exists, and if you care about long term ownership you should not drive your truck up the Ike like those guys do. Slow down a little, and use the tech in the truck (like by forcing a downshift if the truck doesn't) etc etc, unless all you care about is beating your buddy up the hill by a few seconds.



Remember the context; we're in a truck thread talking about truck gas vs truck diesel. But just like the FCA 6.4 blocks, if Ford was stuffing the 7.3 in a car they'd get far more power out of it. For truck usage, they always build their gassers for reliability and durability and cooling and low end torque, not light duty car usage. The 6.4 in a 2500 makes far less power than the 6.4 SRT in the cars, and they're actually different engines at this point with different internals as well.

4000rpm isn't "screaming". Try towing in a 5.3L Silverado 1500 with a 4 speed up a grade. That's screaming. Trans temps high? Please. You didn't watch the video. I don't think the Ford got over 4500rpm on that killer grade.

You better believe that the tfl crowd seriously affected the big three and their towing benchmarks. NO ONE has had a bigger effect in a shorter time span imo.

I know exactly what was towed in each video, I actually watched them, several times, and they were VERY impressive. You know what? I said it was his "gross" and you said it was his gcvwr, as in "gross" combined weight rating....I'm glad we agree on that.

At what point where you watching the videos or reading my reply did you think I stated that the gas engine was equivalent to the diesels? I only showed a single video where a guy said the new ford towed better than his old duramax. That's his opinion.

I'm not sure what you're going on about, I've posted several real world videos of the 7.3 doing real work, better than any gas offering from any other maker.

 

[GonnaBuyaDually]

I did watch it; the truck was screaming the entire time at 4000+ rpms.

You have to understand how a gas engine makes power. 4000rpms is not screaming. That's when a gas engine is in it's power band. The 5.3 I had would be at 5400 going up a slight grade with a race car in tow. That's screaming. That Ford was towing over 20,000 lbs up a long steep incline and I don't think it went over 4500rpm. That's an impressive performance. That's all the evidence that I need to know that my 4.30 geared 7.3 will likely handle my load on my terrain just fine.

 

[ramffml]

4000rpm isn't "screaming". Try towing in a 5.3L Silverado 1500 with a 4 speed up a grade. That's screaming. Trans temps high? Please. You didn't watch the video. I don't think the Ford got over 4500rpm on that killer grade.

You better believe that the tfl crowd seriously affected the big three and their towing benchmarks. NO ONE has had a bigger effect in a shorter time span imo.

I know exactly what was towed in each video, I actually watched them, several times, and they were VERY impressive. You know what? I said it was his "gross" and you said it was his gcvwr, as in "gross" combined weight rating....I'm glad we agree on that.

At what point where you watching the videos or reading my reply did you think I stated that the gas engine was equivalent to the diesels? I only showed a single video where a guy said the new ford towed better than his old duramax. That's his opinion.

I'm not sure what you're going on about, I've posted several real world videos of the 7.3 doing real work, better than any gas offering from any other maker.

Lol, I'm not sure why you're here arguing about the merits of a Ford 7.3 over other engines. Especially now that you bought one.

But anyway, no, TFL does not affect truck manufacturers decision. I don't know where you get that from, but for a start trucks are designed years in advance so the 7.3 probably started design before TFL had > 50K subscribers.

Yes 4500 is screaming. That dude saw temps of 230 in his transmission IIRC, that is very high for a transmission. My truck for example has never been past 190 (transmission) while towing, mind you my load is much smaller too but that's the entire point: that F250 is WORKING HARD. It's not great for long term reliability. While I'm towing, my truck is in "direct gear" (1:1, which for my 8 speed is 6th gear) and if I have a tail wind it will even sit in overdrive. My rpms are 2300 sustained, and occasionally it bumps up to 3000 on a longer/steeper grade. That is comfortable. If I need to push it, I have some room left to go. That dude in the video had it running balls out and you're not going to have a truck left in a few years.

You said "he is towing X gross" which is a backwards way of saying he's towing far less than the number you said. Nobody says it that way (including the truck weight), when you say you're towing X then X is the weight of the trailer.

And yes I told you the 7.3 was the most powerful gas engine out there right now, again that was not the argument. My argument has always been: you'll tow much better and reliably with any modern diesel.

Anyway, you asked for opinions and I have given mine: you are far better off both for performance and long term durability (not to mention MPG) to get a modern diesel. Not going to continue this any further, enjoy your new 7.3!

 

[ramffml]

And one other thing I forgot to mention; you keep talking about the 4.30 as if that is going to change anything. It's not. That just helps you get moving off the line from a stop. In that video from Colter or whatever his name is, he was screaming in 5th, 6th etc, well beyond whatever benefit a super short first gear gets you. You have 10 gears in that truck, a 4.30 only helps you in one of them. Beyond that, as long as you have room to downshift, 4.30 won't change the picture whatsoever, your transmission (10 gears!) does whatever it needs to do to put you at peak power.

 

[retired]

I have a 6.4 and 4.10's and I certainly don't consider 4000 rpm screaming.

 

[Travelin Ram]

Hell, my 6.4 sees 4000 RPM every time I drive it. Empty. So what.

Personally I would choose whichever truck I liked and stop worrying. I would buy a diesel.

But in gas, For me the Ford would probably get the edge due to ratings. I had an F550 with the 6.8 that was at 26k gross minimum every time it moved. Zero issues. Just look around at commercial fleets. Ford everywhere.

 

[ramffml]

Hell, my 6.4 sees 4000 RPM every time I drive it. Empty. So what.

Personally I would choose whichever truck I liked and stop worrying. I would buy a diesel.

But in gas, For me the Ford would probably get the edge due to ratings. I had an F550 with the 6.8 that was at 26k gross minimum every time it moved. Zero issues. Just look around at commercial fleets. Ford everywhere.

TFL did a segment a year+ ago in which they went to cattle/farm auctions and the most popular was Ram. Just depends on the segment. But if popularity were the sole criteria of deciding what to purchase, we all should be driving F150's too, but we don't, so, the super duty would not be my first pick either...

The cummins tows the most, but I'm always impressed at how well the GM twins/duramax tows being down so far on power compared to the other two. It's rated to tow just as much as the Ford and Ram (within a few hundred pounds give or take) and yet is at least 100 to 140 lb/ft of torque less.

But yeah, I'd definitely buy the diesel. If you want to stick with F250, get the powerstroke over the 7.3 any day of the week for this kind of load.

 

[ramffml]

I have a 6.4 and 4.10's and I certainly don't consider 4000 rpm screaming.

4000 to 4300, that's basically peak torque. Your engine has nowhere left to go to make additional power. Maybe we have different definitions of "screaming" but pick a different word then; WOT, full power, whatever the case is, that engine is working as hard as it can, which is my point.

When my truck is empty and I'm in the city or on rural roads, I can go weeks without exceeding 2100 rpms, and that's keeping up with traffic while accelerating, or getting onto freeways etc. 4000 rpms in my truck is a really really rough day while towing anywhere between 5000 to 7000 pounds, I almost never need to touch 4000 even while accelerating while towing, and I've definitely never sat there for minutes on end.

 

[huntergreen]

Op, I still believe you’re looking at the wrong truck. Even in your terrain, diesel is perfect for you. I know this isn’t going to be well rec’d on this forum, but I’d be looking at a Duramax.


I guess you know, it’s not the best market to be new truck shopping.

 

[cobracnvt]

I researched that exhaustively, and so far it seems like a single isolated issue that has been remedied.

If there is another issue, I'm unaware of it.

It was 6 months ago when I was making my purchasing decision and I considered 1 1/2 years worth of F250-F600 truck production significant. They are having the techs at the dealerships pull apart the transmissions of brand new trucks to fix them. That's enough for me to pass and give Ford and GM a couple more years to figure out that transmission.

Here's another issue: https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/14/ford-f-series-super-duty-recall-wheels/

I know it's not directly related to the 7.3 HD truck, but Ford's also recalling their new Mach-E and Bronco Sport vehicles because the roofs are coming off.

The F-150 Steering column are also locking up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmZqmRkHDKU

I like Fords, but it seems like I'm reading about new significant issues with Fords too often lately.