Cam and lifter odyssey, one problem after another and now oil pressure weacked

[unhappycheapskate]

I have a 2014 RAM 1500 5.7L 2WD. I bought it with 80,000 miles and the check engine light was on,something to do with the evap system. It also came with the “Hemi Tick”. I learned that it was common and so ignored it and the evap system problem. At around 160,000 I began to notice the acceleration was off or maybe I was imagining it. But at 170,000 it was clear that the fuel consumption was high (15 mpg) and acceleration was not there. Then one day as I was entering the interstate the check engine, which had always been on, began to flash. That was the same week I was laid off from work. I suddenly had no money, a broken truck, and time. With access to youtube I thought I would fix it myself. I scanned the codes and found that cylinder 5 was misfiring and still had the small evap leak code. Iquickly eliminated spark plugs and fuel injectors as the source of the misfire code. I surrendered my self to the probability it was worst case scenario: lifter/cam failure. I purchased the entirerebuild kit on ebay for $260. It included a cam shaft, 16 lifters,timing chain, both timing sprockets, oil pump, water pump, a set of head bolts, and all the gaskets.

First Engine Tear Down:

I got to work. I found that between the two exhaust manifolds 5 bolts were broken, definite source of the hemi tick. But, then found a lifter had been ground flat and one cam lobe made round. There were signs that two other lobes were being damaged too. At this point I was confident I was working on the right problem. After four 14-hour days I had changed out all the parts and had it back together. I figured even though just the cam and lifters needed replacing that even if the Chinese parts were low quality they did not have 170,000 miles of wear. When it was time to give it a start I heard an immediate and loud “clack” sound. My hear sank. I imagined all the points in the assembly where I could have made an error. I concluded that I must have set the timing wrong and now valves are bent and pistons dented, or worse.

Second Engine Tear Down:

I pulled everything out. The timing was in fact correct. I inspected the valves and lapped them since they were out. All I could come up with is that a push rod must have slipped out from under its rocker. I put it all back together(reusing all my new gaskets) and gave it a start. And it started right up! But the hemi tick was still there and even louder. I figured I had warped exhaust manifolds (they looked flat but how flat is flat?) and I struggled getting the exhaust pipe flange tight too. So probably exhaust leak. All the codes went away except for the evap leak so I was very satisfied. After about 2,000 mile it seemed to me that the hemi tick was getting louder. I believed it a mechanical sounding tick, not exhaust manifold leak. I scanned for codes. I still had the small evap leak, but also miss firing on cylinders 3, 5 and 7.

Third Engine Tear Down:

I'm just sure those Chinese lifters are suspect. I ordered a new set and spent the money. I also got a new set a push rods. Maybe they were bent ever so slightly and not sliding smoothly, still thinking about the clack I heard on the first startup attempt. I pulled everything off the top of the engine and left the water pump and timing cover alone to try to determine the source of the ticking sound. I found nothing unusual. Well, maybe I did. While I was taking apart the driver's side I had been interrupted and had to go in the house to take care of something. When I resumed where I left off, which was to remove intake rocker assembly, I found that all the bolts were loose, like looser than finger tight. That's not like me to “start” a step and not finish no matter how much my wife is pestering me. I simply could not remember if I had already started that or not when I went in the house. Having removed both heads and finding no bent push rods or anything else amiss, I concluded that the bolts on the drivers side intake rocker assembly were indeed loose which easily would explain the loud ticking and misfire codes. Back together it went. I had some difficulty with setting the heads in place (they are heavy) and bent up the head gasket on the drivers side. I tried to flatten it out as best I could. Before putting the valve covers back on, with one spark plug from each cylinder removed, and fuel pump fuse removed, I turned over the engine to listen for any valve train noise. Everything looked good. I finished the reassembly and prepared for the moment of truth. This time the truck ran very poorly, as in it struggled to idle. There was a new something wrong. My exhaust leak sound is really bad but it was different, not my familiar tick, more like a back-firing sound. I'm thinking there is a limit to the number of time one can install a head gasket even with few miles on it, especially if it gets bent. Then I noticed that the new oil I just put in was brownish. I think water got in the oil. Blown head gasket? I ordered an new set of head gaskets.

Fourth Engine Tear Down:

Heads off and back on in same day. Moment of truth....Started right up, and sounds great! And then seconds later the engine oil light began to flash. Zero oil pressure.

That was last week. I searched on line for potential causes. The answer I kept running into was a bad pressure sensor, so I ordered one.

Yesterday:

Swapped out the sensor and started it up again. The oil light is still flashing with 0 psi. So clearly it was not a sensor issue. From my search on this forum I learned that there is a need to prime the oil pump. I had not done that before in any of the previous tear downs. I did the garden sprayer method and pumped in a quart of oil in the top port and a quart on bottom,where the oil temp sensor is. Then I drained off about two quarts(well maybe only one) and gave it another try. I also thought it might be good to try to flush the oil with Liquid Moly as I was going to replace the oil again anyway. It started right up again but this time the oil pressure was 40 PSI and climbing. When it got to 80 psi I shut it down. That's not good either.

Today:

Drain the oil. Maybe there was too much oil in the engine. I have maybe five minutes of run time on the new 5W 20 synthetic oil, Fram Tough Guard filter, and liquid moly engine flush. Here's the crazy part, when I took off the oil filter there was no oil in it! I'm about to loose my mind. How can this be? There is no oil in filter?!

Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[Hydrasport23]

Not really trying to be rude, but are you serious? Four teardowns and still having major engine issues? There are so many issues with this "repair", it has to be a troll.

 

[aszumilo]

I think your problem is related to that $260 rebuild kit. Who knows how good the quality of the parts in that kit are. I'm guessing pretty poor.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

Not being a d-i_n.k here...but...

 

[Ken226]

lifter had been ground flat and one cam lobe made round.

I hate to say it, but every dollar spent after this point, you can probably consider tuition paid for the education you received.

It is not a very good deal, but not a horrible one either. You probably got the equivalent of a month of "Auto Mechanics" at a community college for the couple grand you spend. Not that this makes you feel any better about it.


But, All of the metal that used to be the camshaft lobe is now powder, circulating through the oil pump, main bearings, rod bearings, cam bearings and lifters. The zero oil pressure thing was always going to happen here, it was just a matter of how long it took that powdered cam lobe to wear away the oil pump, or clog something.



That engine either needs to be replaced entirely,

or,

removed from the truck, detail stripped, thoroughly cleaned and then rebuilt with quality parts.

Given how cheap you went in your first attempt, money is obviously an issue, so you should probably start shopping for a used engine. That will be your cheapest and easiest route.

 

[16WhiteQC]

Did you even check the VVT solenoid for shaving before doing the work?


If that had/has a ton of metal shaving the motor was basically toast!

 

[EdGs]

I think your problem is related to that $260 rebuild kit. Who knows how good the quality of the parts in that kit are. I'm guessing pretty poor.

Rook same, you buy!

OE for critical parts, ALWAYS

Unless you are extremely confident about a aftermarket mfr's quality, IMO.

AS @Ken226 said, with that much damage to the cam, you have much bigger problems.

I wish you the best getting it sorted out.

 

[Daw14]

 

[EdGs]

 

[Sherman Bird]

I just ordered a 30 gallon bucket of popping corn!

 

[04fxdwgi]

Rook same, you buy!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Markw]

I have a 2012 1500. I was layed off a couple of years ago and about 2 months later the dreaded HEMI tick and misfire on cylinder 2. I couldn’t afford to replace the truck. If I bought another used one it could happen again at any time. I know how mine is taken care of and it was paid off. The truck had 165000 miles on it. I considered a cam and lifters for it. The engine had 28 pounds of oil pressure at idle hot. I’m sure that the bearings, oil pump and everything else had a good dose of glitter run through it. By the time I figured what the cost was for a new cam, lifters, water pump, oil pump, belts, hoses and pretty much anything else on the front of the engine as well as gaskets etc and me doing the work it was about half of what a remanufactured engine cost and it has a warranty along with everything replaced on the front of the engine. I got one with MDS delete and it came with a tuner to turn it off. The reman engine has 41 PSI of oil pressure at hot idle. The engine has 38000 miles on it now and runs great. I’ve only noticed a slight drop in fuel mileage.

 

[Ken226]

I have a 2012 1500. I was layed off a couple of years ago and about 2 months later the dreaded HEMI tick and misfire on cylinder 2. I couldn’t afford to replace the truck. If I bought another used one it could happen again at any time. I know how mine is taken care of and it was paid off. The truck had 165000 miles on it. I considered a cam and lifters for it. The engine had 28 pounds of oil pressure at idle hot. I’m sure that the bearings, oil pump and everything else had a good dose of glitter run through it. By the time I figured what the cost was for a new cam, lifters, water pump, oil pump, belts, hoses and pretty much anything else on the front of the engine as well as gaskets etc and me doing the work it was about half of what a remanufactured engine cost and it has a warranty along with everything replaced on the front of the engine. I got one with MDS delete and it came with a tuner to turn it off. The reman engine has 41 PSI of oil pressure at hot idle. The engine has 38000 miles on it now and runs great. I’ve only noticed a slight drop in fuel mileage.

Which remanufacturer brand did you go with? Did they give you any info regarding what internal parts they used, such as bearings, cam, lifters, etc?

I've been paying attention to the forums to see which reman engines are failing and which aren't. Specifically, with regard to the Hemi. Or more importanly, which ones are actually lasting.

Other engines are alot more forgiving with regard to lifters, cams, etc. Plenty of aftermarket parts will last forever in a Small Block Chevy, or a Vortec, but in a Hemi, not so much.

 

[Dusty]

That was a tough read! I almost has tears in my eyes.

I've sent this link to two family members who stubbornly believe that OEM parts are junk and too expensive and aftermarket is as good or better anyways.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 133455 miles.

 

[Daw14]

Me thinks maybe a troll , as just one post ,no responses.

Most asking for advice seem to be happy when it’s received , I ? If they will return.

 

[DeckArtist]

I have a 2012 1500. I was layed off a couple of years ago and about 2 months later the dreaded HEMI tick and misfire on cylinder 2. I couldn’t afford to replace the truck. If I bought another used one it could happen again at any time. I know how mine is taken care of and it was paid off. The truck had 165000 miles on it. I considered a cam and lifters for it. The engine had 28 pounds of oil pressure at idle hot. I’m sure that the bearings, oil pump and everything else had a good dose of glitter run through it. By the time I figured what the cost was for a new cam, lifters, water pump, oil pump, belts, hoses and pretty much anything else on the front of the engine as well as gaskets etc and me doing the work it was about half of what a remanufactured engine cost and it has a warranty along with everything replaced on the front of the engine. I got one with MDS delete and it came with a tuner to turn it off. The reman engine has 41 PSI of oil pressure at hot idle. The engine has 38000 miles on it now and runs great. I’ve only noticed a slight drop in fuel mileage.

I just got my truck back from the shop. 180 K and the check engine light came on about a month ago at 175K. Misfire number two and a little bit of ticking from the manifold. So both manifold got replaced as well as the bolts and a new injector and cylinder too. Drove about 50 miles and then went and got the obligatory smog inspection so I could get my registration renewed next month.

Bummer that you have had to take yours apart four times. I couldn't begin to tell you what you needed to do. That said, hope you get it all worked out quickly.

 

[Burla]

You bought a truck with hemi tick and ignored it? Go get you a 1990's ford with a 351w and put a new engine in it, it likely would last a lifetime. Once a hemi bites you, you are supposed to be twice shy.

 

[unhappycheapskate]

Thank you for the encouraging and helpful replies. I've been away for a few weeks and just getting back to this. I have had some time to ponder all I've done and what I was dealing with, which was as much user incompetence (inexperience) as mechanical issues.

Historical info: For as long as I had had the truck, the engine noise was always louder than my Lexus and any other car I had formerly owned, but really not much different than many trucks driving around. It also had a check engine light from when Ifirst bought it, so that was always on. The fuel gauge did notwork so my work around was to set the trip odometer each fill up. I got the truck well below blue book so never complained.

100,000 miles later: The truck seemed to not accelerate as it used to. Then one day I got a flashing check engine light on entering the interstate. Fortunately, I was on my way home from a business trip to company HQ where I was informed of my being laidoff. When I got home the code reader indicated a misfire on cylinder number five.

Initial trouble shooting: Google search indicated several possible causes, so I started with easy, low cost possible causes first.

1. Poor spark. I changed out all the spark plugs with new ones. That was $150. I was not confident that only one cylinder would be that bad off if all spark plugs were equally old. While I was at it switched around the coil packs. No surprise, there was no improvement.

2. Fuel Injector faulty. I pulled the fuel rail and exchanged the fuel injectors. No change.

3. Cam/lifter failure. Always accompanied by engine ticking sound not to be confused with an exhaust leak sound,that is very common....hmm, I think I have that but just assumed it was an exhaust leak. This is not looking good.

Decision Time: I thought to just sell the truck as is. I need the money and didn't need the truck anymore, but how much couldI get for it? In the end I determined that I would fix it. I have no experience just excessive confidence and time. For $280 I found a complete rebuild kit on eBay (photo attached). I was just looking for gaskets, lifters and a cam, but could not pass up this deal.

Engine Tear down: By the time I got the radiator out, intake manifold off, and valve covers off I was almost hoping the cam was bad, because if it wasn't that, I had no idea how to proceed. Below are photos of what I found after heads came off. I also found a number of exhaust manifold bolts broken. Two needed the nut and MIG welder trick.

Reassembly: This was very challenging. I decided to use all my new parts even though aside from the cam and lifters, the original components had all been working. I spend two days putting things back together. The oil pump was really tight, so that was a concern. I had the idea to put all the spark plugs back in the heads, when access is easy prior to mounting the heads. That was a mistake because it made turning over the engine very difficult later on and what I believe caused me to miss something. What I now believe had occurred in my first assembly effort was the lifter rod did not seat properly on the lifter. I knew to feel and spin the rods under the intake side as these fall out when cranking down the bolts. But, what I found on a subsequent reassembly was that the lifter end of the rod may not be seated correctly such that it is good under the rocker armend but when the engine was turned over it would not lift at all. I believe this was what caused the clack sound when I when to start the truck after Attempt Number 1 and was the only thing wrong. Of course, I did not have a clue at the time what was wrong and just started taking things apart looking for the culprit.

Attempt Number 2: I did not use any lock tight when putting it back together. And during disassembly number 3 I found several bolts on the driver's side valve train loose and could not remember if I had already loosened them or not. Well, I now believe that those bolts were loose and getting looser. That would explain the loud ticking the finial resulted in mis fires on three of the four cylinders on the driver's side.

Attempt Number 3: I Assumed the lifters were bad. I bought OEM lifters to eliminate the possibility of that being the cause. I had almost hoped that was the issue. Anyway, I put in th new lifters and went ahead and repacle the rods too, just in case. How likely is it that three lifters are made bad? Its possible, but not probable. The loose bolts on the rockers seems to be the most likely cause. When I went to put the heads on I had nothing but problems. I ended mangling one of the head gaskets but without a replacement I tried to flatten it out and used it anyway. I also had taken a short cut. When I had removed then timing cover previously I used a shop vac to suck out all the water from the engine passages. I did not do that this time. I think I created an opportunity for water to get into the engine oil spaces. As you know this rebuild effort went bad and the engine barley idled when I was done.

Attempt Number 4: I decided I was not going to do it even faster this time, but would pace my self, stop to eat, etc. I got it all together and had no oil pressure. So this now begins my update.

How likely is it that a sensor fails during a maintenance action? It might get damaged by carelessness, but I did not damage it. I changed it out thinking that was the problem. It was not. That about the time I pulled the oil filter and found it was bone dry and lost my mind. This truck is is conspiring against me! No Oil Pressure? That did not make any sense. Learned about priming the oil pump and then did that. Still no oil pressure. Droped the oil pan and pulled the siphon tube. I inspected it and put it back on. I noticed that it did not want to seat fully without the bolt to hold it in place. I put the pan back on and repeated the priming process, started the engine and still no oil pressure. More online research. How to locate a major blockage? I attempted to isolate where oil flow is being blocked. I took the front of the engine off again, to include the oil pump, which means the oil pan and tube too. At the point where the oil pump sends oil into the engine I pumped oil with my new modified bug sprayer. Oill traveled everywhere. I also found that the oil filter has a back flow preventer so oil flows in one direction through it. The problem is now between the oil pan and the top of the oil pump. I opened the oil pump to see if the pressure relief was stuck. I was looking at the gear and noticed the gear inside flopped around in there very easy when before it hardly moved. I then started to think about how tight it was to get on the crank shaft the very first installation and now it slipped right on. That Chinese quality! I had planned to be out of town for a few weeks so left every thing as it was while I would ponder this situation. Before I wrapped up for the day, I pumped three gallons of diesel fuel through the engine as a way to flush any contaminants that might be in there.

I concluded the oil pump is defective, so I bought a Melling HighFlow oil pump. It came with a couple of pressure options. I went for the lower pressure spring. So yesterday it went on the truck. It came with a new O ring which I had inserted in the oil pump to keep from losing it. When I put the siphon tube on I removed the O ring that was on it so as to use the new one in the oil pump. The tube went in with a pop and held the bolt flange tight and flush. It suddenly hit me that this alone could have been the issue: A siphon leak. I don't recall how I had assembled the oilpump/tube O ring previously. I know that the most recent time it did not want to seat. I wonder now if I had the O ring on the tube and tried to shove it in to the oil pump. I must have, and conversly on each of the previous assembly efforts I must have had the O ring in the oil pump first. Well, when I started it up it immediately whet to 60 PSI of oil pressure at idle and purred. The engine runs so quiet now compared to how it used to be, its just amazing!

Finished?

I have about 30 miles on it now. It seems to now idle with 40 to 48 PSI oil pressure and tops out in the high 60's. I have not gotten on the highway yet, but hit the county roads at 60 mph. Everything seems great.

Conclusions/Lessons: In every instance where I blamed low quality parts, I have found where I was as likely or even more so the probable cause of the disappointment. Had I not made the initial error with the rods and rocker function, I may have been 100% good on the first attempt. Of course, we will now never know if the Chinese lifters and other components are reliable. Truth is I'm not that interested in finding out. I'm just glad its finally done!

 

[tim9lives]

Not really trying to be rude, but are you serious? Four teardowns and still having major engine issues? There are so many issues with this "repair", it has to be a troll.
That was my thought also. But I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Now that said...You buy a vehicle that you have no history of with 80k miles.... Ignore the noises and Hemi tick for 80k more miles....And then you tear it down 4 times. Dude....I truly don't know where to begin. I do know that if it was my vehicle I would have tuned it...new plugs and wire boots. I would have gone with a top quality synthetic oil. And thats just starters. Tearing it down 4 times. That isn't ever going to happen. I'd dump it if it failed after the first tear down. Maybe repair it and sell it. The vehicle just wouldn't be for me.

 

[Wild one]

Not really trying to be rude, but are you serious? Four teardowns and still having major engine issues? There are so many issues with this "repair", it has to be a troll.
That was my thought also. But I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Now that said...You buy a vehicle that you have no history of with 80k miles.... Ignore the noises and Hemi tick for 80k more miles....And then you tear it down 4 times. Dude....I truly don't know where to begin. I do know that if it was my vehicle I would have tuned it...new plugs and wire boots. I would have gone with a top quality synthetic oil. And thats just starters. Tearing it down 4 times. That isn't ever going to happen. I'd dump it if it failed after the first tear down. Maybe repair it and sell it. The vehicle just wouldn't be for me.

Thread's almost a year old,and the OP hasn't been here in 6 months.You're a bit late to the party