Stellantis US Sales Fall 21%, Rolls Out $2,000 Incentive To Stop The Bleeding

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...S&cvid=05d943c01d1d46228c3c3a358c853d42&ei=16

 

[Docwagon1776]

When you stop making the products your customers want to buy and raise the prices and lower the value the results are predictable. Glad I got a 19 Laramie Hemi!

Want a smaller economical truck?

Ford: Have a Maverick
Ram: ...

Want a capable midsize truck that's both a "real" truck and you can maneuver and park in congested urban areas?
Ford: Have a Ranger
Ram: ...

(aside, WTF does Ram not adapt the Jeep Gladiator into a new Dakota? Fixed roof, decent non-Jeep hose out interior... Why???)

Want a 1/2 ton with a V8?
Ford: Here's your coyote equipped F-150
Ram: ...

Want an off road oriented 1/2 ton with a true mechanical locking transfer case *and* auto 4wd and anything other than a completely open front diff?
Ford: Can I interest you in a Tremor or Raptor?
Ram: ...

Ram has had the lead in interior quality and comfort for quite awhile, but other makers have narrowed that gap significantly. Honestly, if the Power Wagon wasn't a thing I'd be driving a Tremor or Raptor right now.

 

[Yardbird]

Ford has a better variety of products..., the quality, that's a different story.

I've been a member on a Ford form for over 20 years.

Ford is having all kinds of quality issues on every model, and new issues pop up every day.

I'm in my 2018 Ram because I couldn't trust the Fords, plus the prices used were way too high.

My first car was a Ford, and I've had Fords most of my driving life. I've had Dodges also, and still have the 1994 2500.

 

[Rlaf75]

Look at how many time's Chrysler dodge jeep Mopar or whatever you want to call it has been bought, sold and merged with other companies. That should tell you how well they do as a company. I agree with someone's previous post that the brand never was really known for being the greatest. I personally think they did good with the reinvesting of the challenger and charger platforms when they started making factory "hotrods". I would've bought a hellcat or even a TRX if they were crazy money. They are going to price themselves right out of the markets. Don't get me started on the 6 cylinder pickups.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Ford has a better variety of products..., the quality, that's a different story.

I've been a member on a Ford form for over 20 years.

Ford is having all kinds of quality issues on every model, and new issues pop up every day.

I'm in my 2018 Ram because I couldn't trust the Fords, plus the prices used were way too high.

My first car was a Ford, and I've had Fords most of my driving life. I've had Dodges also, and still have the 1994 2500.

Definitely don't hear any quality issues about Ram on the Ramforum....

But, yes, I get it. However the fact remains Ram has ceded vast chunks of the market and has priced out a lot of new buyers while alienating a chunk of the key "stodgy old guy who can afford an $80k truck" market with the lack of a V8 to buy.

 

[Yardbird]

Definitely don't hear any quality issues about Ram on the Ramforum....

But, yes, I get it. However the fact remains Ram has ceded vast chunks of the market and has priced out a lot of new buyers while alienating a chunk of the key "stodgy old guy who can afford an $80k truck" market with the lack of a V8 to buy.

You are right. I wouldn't buy a new Ram at the prices they are now. I really wouldn't buy anyone's new vehicle. Quality and prices have really hurt the market.

The companies are banking on the people that have to buy new because of accidents, age of old vehicle, fleet purchases, ect, to keep them going.

Read this article to see where car companies are looking........

https://www.thestreet.com/automotive/ford-ceo-american-car-buyers-break-addiction

 

[Docwagon1776]

You are right. I wouldn't buy a new Ram at the prices they are now. I really wouldn't buy anyone's new vehicle. Quality and prices have really hurt the market.

The companies are banking on the people that have to buy new because of accidents, age of old vehicle, fleet purchases, ect, to keep them going.

Read this article to see where car companies are looking........

https://www.thestreet.com/automotive/ford-ceo-american-car-buyers-break-addiction

He's not wrong, especially for EVs. I think many of us have questioned why things like the Hummer and Cybertruck exist. They are mostly a way for wealthy (or those who wish to be perceived as wealthy) to pretend to be green. A Civic would be more environmentally responsible by any measure, something that even EV proponents realize and point out about these monster sized EVs.

Ford and the other American companies abandoned the small car market. They didn't make enough money per unit, the Japanese were cleaning their clocks by making ones that were actually good, and they fled. Chrysler had a real winner with the last generation of the 200. They made it for 2 years and quit. What's the last small car Chevy made that had any buzz? HHR, probably?

I'm not saying only sell small cars, and I'm sure neither is Farley, but having a competitive small car would be healthy long term for any brand. How many people buy a Civic or Camry as their first car based on entry cost and relative value and then become brand loyal for decades due to that? Why did US car companies largely give up that natural progression of affordable entry car, mainstream car as the buyer gets older/more financially secure, performance/luxury car as the buyer has more disposable income? Ford vs Ferrari is well and good, but how about Ford vs the 3-series instead of *another* SUV? Mach-e...ick.

 

[Sherman Bird]

You are right. I wouldn't buy a new Ram at the prices they are now. I really wouldn't buy anyone's new vehicle. Quality and prices have really hurt the market.

The companies are banking on the people that have to buy new because of accidents, age of old vehicle, fleet purchases, ect, to keep them going.

Read this article to see where car companies are looking........

https://www.thestreet.com/automotive/ford-ceo-american-car-buyers-break-addiction

Age of vehicle hasn't stopped numerous of my clientelle.
I recently replaced 3 engines in 3 different vehicles that were 10 or more years old. The oldest was 18 years of age.
All of these cases required monetary outlay that exceeded the vehicles' intrinsic values. Inasmuch as the bodies/interiors were/are very good and functional, they all made sense because the money spent wasn't even 1/4 the cost to replace the car.

Other repair tabs are reaching 3-6 thousand dollars routinely.

My oldest OBD2 car that I work on is a 1998 Accord with 265,000 miles on the clock... everything works. Cosmetically, it shows it's age, but it is still highway worthy. The catalytic converter is the original one. Still passes emissions tests.

 

[runamuck]

we are hanging on to our vehicles. the wife has a low mileage '17 infiniti qx50 and me a '22 laramie 2500 dsl. hers the last year of the 300hp v6 and rear wheel drive and paid for. mine as long as we still have our 5th wheel to tow..I only owe about 20,000 on it. If we get rid of our trailer, I will look for a used 1500 v8 that I can restore or update. I would have kept my '19 laramie 4x4 ccsb till the end if we hadnt bought the 5th wheel. it was paid for but I needed the equity for the trade.

 

[JF19Longhorn]

They're all out of their damn minds with the cost of new trucks.. it needs to be more like a 10-15k discount (model dependent) before I'm going to jump.

 

[Gom]

Look at how many time's Chrysler dodge jeep Mopar or whatever you want to call it has been bought, sold and merged with other companies. That should tell you how well they do as a company. I agree with someone's previous post that the brand never was really known for being the greatest. I personally think they did good with the reinvesting of the challenger and charger platforms when they started making factory "hotrods". I would've bought a hellcat or even a TRX if they were crazy money. They are going to price themselves right out of the markets. Don't get me started on the 6 cylinder pickups.

Totally agree. I bought my 2016 new and it had like 10k off the sticker price which is exactly why I bought it. My truck is a part time vehicle, It's only got 67k miles on it. I felt for the price it offered the most value. I don't think anyone offers value today, especially CDJR.
So this could likely be my last truck, I will milk it as long as possible and by then kids will be grown and I can move on.

 

[Big D's Ram]

It's no wonder that Stellantis is in the predicament they are in now. I would consider buying a new 4th gen RAM with a HEMI (or at least the site still says you can build one) but I am extremely hesitant to do it given the pricing and quality issues.

Fortunately I can do most automotive repairs myself so I can maintain our vehicles and keep them roadworthy. They have all been very reliable (2001 Intrepid, 2008 300C, 2011 RAM, 2011 Challenger R/T). I never thought it would get to this point that I would no longer consider buying a new vehicle. But the pricing, styling, and complexity is ruining them.

 

[tbird71]

I still own my 07 Titan which I bought new. Bought two new Rams sold them and kept the Titan. Driving a miled out 11 F150 at my other hoime and will contiunue to keep the Titan. It's a base king cab but I'd still take it over ANY Dodge OR Ford for good everyday transportation. Never failed me in all these years

 

[ColoradoCub64]

Like everything else in our world currently the prices before any discounts or rebates are a complete joke. To think that I walked into a dealership in 2018 and negotiated a brand new 2018 2500 Laramie with the Cummins for $58,000 and today the same trucks are at least $10k-15k higher even after the sales and discounts is a joke. Same goes for almost every truck, F150 XLT’s cost as much as Lariats did a few years back. The fact that they have such high MSRP’s and then they add some piddly discounts to make you feel like the price isnt bad is a scam. Add in the ridiculous interest rates and buying right now is just stupid. Sad state of affairs we are in right now in this country.

 

[BenchTest]

Can we all agree that post-plandemic, all the automotive producers are making over-priced crap? MSRP's are ridiculous and EVERY one of them has a list of recalls longer than the list of options on the build sheet. Airbags going off at random times, vehicles leaving "Park" gear after sitting idle in a driveway for hours, transmission failures by the boat load, driveline failures, turbo engines coming apart, computer failures, vehicles catching on fire, vehicles melting during re-charge, list goes on and on. $32k commuter vehicles. $100k luxury trucks. The world has lost it's mind on what things cost. I've given serious consideration to abandoning modern/late model vehicles in favor of older units. At this point I think I'd rather drive an old Chevy/Ford/Dodge pickup. Just wish I could find one that was anything other than regular cab and not rotted out, crashed, or both.

 

[skates15]

They will have to do way better than $2k. That incentive seems regular to me and will be eaten up by high interest rates.

I'm surprised their sales hadn't cratered more, considering excess inventory and over-valuing their vehicles by 15-20k coupled with high interest rates.

I'm curious what it would take for the manufacturers to bring pricing down to a reasonable level that average Americans and Canadians can afford?

Or is it up the dealerships to push the manufacturers?

I think they are going to stay the course hoping the fed drops rates after the election, which will remove any pressure for them to lower costs.

 

[BenchTest]

Want a smaller economical truck?

Ford: Have a Maverick
Ram: ...

Want a capable midsize truck that's both a "real" truck and you can maneuver and park in congested urban areas?
Ford: Have a Ranger
Ram: ...

(aside, WTF does Ram not adapt the Jeep Gladiator into a new Dakota? Fixed roof, decent non-Jeep hose out interior... Why???)

Want a 1/2 ton with a V8?
Ford: Here's your coyote equipped F-150
Ram: ...

Want an off road oriented 1/2 ton with a true mechanical locking transfer case *and* auto 4wd and anything other than a completely open front diff?
Ford: Can I interest you in a Tremor or Raptor?
Ram: ...

Ram has had the lead in interior quality and comfort for quite awhile, but other makers have narrowed that gap significantly. Honestly, if the Power Wagon wasn't a thing I'd be driving a Tremor or Raptor right now.

Right. Is it too much to ask that the American truck market has a usable, utility truck for the average homeowner? Ranger-sized, Dakota-sized? Decent V-6 powerplant, reliable transmission, a manual option, something the used-to-be-middle-class working guy can buy and afford to operate, while still being able to eat and keep the lights on? Base model trucks starting in the high $40's is ridiculous. Turbo 4's in full-sized $60k trucks is ridiculous. 92 speed transmission and a 4.88 gear to get it down the road at 70mph, all the while hunting for a gear to be in, ridiculous. Want a V-8? That'll be a $75k truck. Want a diesel, sure, let's make that $75-$100k. I was just at Toyota's lot looking at their $51k Tacoma that's not top-trim. Just for grins I wanted to see the new body style and see how it was laid out. Turbo 4's, $51k. Yeah, I know, I'm all over the place. Bitter typing taking place. I've been through several new vehicles in the past 4 years. Problems after problems. Burned by GM. Burned by Toyota. Ford pissed me off because I couldn't get a 2-speed transfer case without spending big money. Seems like there is a market for a basic, reliable vehicle, without all the extra BS at a decent price point. Probably a byproduct of the average American consumer wanting "pretty" and "techy" instead of usable and reliable. OK, I'll shut up now.

 

[RD Holland]

Our local dealer has RAMs lined up out front by the road with writing on the windows touting $13000 off. A few months ago we stopped in to look at a Charger (392) and a couple of the Challengers. They had ADMs of $8-10k. A Hellcat in the show room had a $20k ADM. We were just looking and I mentioned the Charger ADM and the sales manager quickly said "Buy it right now and I'll drop that." I told the wife before he said that that they would drop that in a heartbeat. Still, we didn't buy as we were just browsing on a Saturday to kill some time.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I'm curious what it would take for the manufacturers to bring pricing down to a reasonable level that average Americans and Canadians can afford?

Vehicles to stop moving at current prices. As long as their are guys with the disposable income/credit willing to buy at the current price what's the incentive to make less money? The long term problem is the market for these expensive trucks is literally dying as the customer base continues to creep older and older.

 

[ColoradoCub64]

Ram has a significant inventory around here but it’s nothing like Ford, there are F150’s for miles at the dealerships and they don’t have anything by way of a discounts or rebates combined with garbage financing. I don’t know what these dealers will need to do to get these trucks sold. Even $10,000 off these F150’s isn’t a good deal when they are MSRP’d at about $10,000 more than they were a few years ago.

 

[Scott0700]

23 new vehicles in my life. 8 were Ram 2500s. Four had transmissions fail in under 50k. Never lost a trans in any other vehicle. Makes it hard to buy another Ram. But I’ve done far dumber things. The buying motivation was always price. It’s not there any more.