Stellantis US Sales Fall 21%, Rolls Out $2,000 Incentive To Stop The Bleeding

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...S&cvid=05d943c01d1d46228c3c3a358c853d42&ei=16

 

[BenchTest]

The second bit is more of a mover than the first bit. A Nissan Versa starts at under $18k and meets all requirements to be legally sold in the US, but who's buying it? Mazda, Toyota, and Honda all make a perfectly decent car for $22-25k-ish. A Versa is roughly 26% of the median US salary now. In 1995 the cheapest econobox was probably a Geo Metro, which was 28% of the median US salary and was a significantly more compromised vehicle. Essentially a plastic Easter egg with a 3 cylinder...

But who's making an inexpensive full size truck now? The makers have cut most of the low trim options out just because they have used the manufacturing capacity on higher optioned vehicles with a higher profit per unit return. Maybe we'll see a return to more downstream options. Base trucks and econoboxes sell pretty well when the cost of money is high. Understanding the irony of saying this as a PW owner, but everything has just gotten so bloated since the 80's and early 90's... but the pendulum always swings. Remember a modern Ford Ranger has the same footprint as a late 70's F-150... but consumers are panicky gazelles as soon as fuel prices go up, you can watch the foot print of vehicles roller coaster over the decades. Another reason Ford recognizes they need to get some equivalent of the Focus back in their lineup, be it ICE, EV, or hybrid.

I've owned 3 Rangers over the years, starting back in the 80's. Best darned truck for the money I've ever owned. First one was an extended cab, 2WD, manual trans. I sold it with 220k miles on it. Saw the guy I sold it to about 10 years later. He had over 400k on it. A couple of clutches, some oil seals, and regular maint, but otherwise original. I bought two more in later years, base model, manual trans. Never had issues with them. They were just built for doing basic homeowner truck stuff. I looked at them again when the latest generation came out. So glad I stayed away from them. Ford completely screwed up what the Ranger was. And, LOL @ "plastic easter egg" - pretty accurate description.

 

[Scottly]

I'm curious what it would take for the manufacturers to bring pricing down to a reasonable level that average Americans and Canadians can afford?

They could always stop paying some illiterate union clown $80k annual to stand there and bolt on parts. But we know that wouldn't happen.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I've owned 3 Rangers over the years, starting back in the 80's. Best darned truck for the money I've ever owned. First one was an extended cab, 2WD, manual trans. I sold it with 220k miles on it. Saw the guy I sold it to about 10 years later. He had over 400k on it. A couple of clutches, some oil seals, and regular maint, but otherwise original. I bought two more in later years, base model, manual trans. Never had issues with them. They were just built for doing basic homeowner truck stuff. I looked at them again when the latest generation came out. So glad I stayed away from them. Ford completely screwed up what the Ranger was. And, LOL @ "plastic easter egg" - pretty accurate description.

I was very interested in the Ranger Raptor, but they delayed release too long. I may still pick one up as my retirement-mobile when/if I decide to downsize from the PW. That's probably 7-10 years out, though.

 

[BenchTest]

I was very interested in the Ranger Raptor, but they delayed release too long. I may still pick one up as my retirement-mobile when/if I decide to downsize from the PW. That's probably 7-10 years out, though.

Maybe they'll have the kinks worked out of them by then, lol.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Auto manufacturers would argue that in recent years Americans have wanted "techy" and "pretty" and that's what gives them margin. In all fairness, automobile manufacturers are almost always behind the market curve.

In a recent article Travares admitted being "arrogant" in the direction of Chrysler by forcing policies that fit European mindset onto the North American market. His direction to stop making sedans, stop buying EPA credits 100% and the commitment to be a 100% electric vehicle producer is the epitome of arrogance, IMO. The question is will he fix it before he loses anymore top Chrysler people.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115215 miles.

Who knew the Italians & French knew nothing about American vehicle buyers and would ram Euro vehicles down their throats?!

Fiat 0500, anyone? Hello? Buehler?

Same thing happened to us at work - brought in the Frenchies and wrecked us. Dropped sales in half in 8 years.

Bye, Stellantis.

 

[AlexC2350]

The second bit is more of a mover than the first bit. A Nissan Versa starts at under $18k and meets all requirements to be legally sold in the US, but who's buying it? Mazda, Toyota, and Honda all make a perfectly decent car for $22-25k-ish. A Versa is roughly 26% of the median US salary now. In 1995 the cheapest econobox was probably a Geo Metro, which was 28% of the median US salary and was a significantly more compromised vehicle. Essentially a plastic Easter egg with a 3 cylinder...

But who's making an inexpensive full size truck now? The makers have cut most of the low trim options out just because they have used the manufacturing capacity on higher optioned vehicles with a higher profit per unit return. Maybe we'll see a return to more downstream options. Base trucks and econoboxes sell pretty well when the cost of money is high. Understanding the irony of saying this as a PW owner, but everything has just gotten so bloated since the 80's and early 90's... but the pendulum always swings. Remember a modern Ford Ranger has the same footprint as a late 70's F-150... but consumers are panicky gazelles as soon as fuel prices go up, you can watch the foot print of vehicles roller coaster over the decades. Another reason Ford recognizes they need to get some equivalent of the Focus back in their lineup, be it ICE, EV, or hybrid.

You’re definitely not wrong. There’s a stigma around the jelly bean cars and stripped out trucks. Most people drive them only as long as they have to then jump to the next best thing, even if their jelly bean car was still good enough. I dumped the ford focus as soon as I made enough to get an f150 then dumped for loaded gmc because that’s what I was working for. Kind of warped but I realized that after kids. Most people don’t need anything more than those little cars but simply having what you need is not what it’s about, or maybe it should be? If it weren’t for crazy low interest rates most people would be driving more of those cars. Like you said that’s what happens when things rise and fall. When I met my wife she had just bought a brand new Mitsubishi Lancer for 16k. It looked pretty good drove fine and got great mileage. That same car today is like 10k more. I personally do put tons of blame on government and their regulations. Some of the blame is on the modern consumer wanting more more more, for sure. It’s stupid to me but people should be able to get what they want period. The Europeans can go hell with their little junk cars, whiz motors.

 

[AlexC2350]

Sounds like you're smart for your years. Glad you can see a bigger picture. We need more of your generation squared away with their thought processes. Have a good day.

I try to pay attention is all. More more people are waking up to it. I work with a bunch of young guys who are pretty smart and are thinking about this stuff much younger than I was.

 

[BenchTest]

I try to pay attention is all. More more people are waking up to it. I work with a bunch of young guys who are pretty smart and are thinking about this stuff much younger than I was.

That's good to read. I've unfortunately been around quite a few 20-30 somethings that have a different perspective on how life should be.

 

[Docwagon1776]

You’re definitely not wrong. There’s a stigma around the jelly bean cars and stripped out trucks. Most people drive them only as long as they have to then jump to the next best thing, even if their jelly bean car was still good enough. I dumped the ford focus as soon as I made enough to get an f150 then dumped for loaded gmc because that’s what I was working for. Kind of warped but I realized that after kids. Most people don’t need anything more than those little cars but simply having what you need is not what it’s about, or maybe it should be? If it weren’t for crazy low interest rates most people would be driving more of those cars. Like you said that’s what happens when things rise and fall. When I met my wife she had just bought a brand new Mitsubishi Lancer for 16k. It looked pretty good drove fine and got great mileage. That same car today is like 10k more. I personally do put tons of blame on government and their regulations. Some of the blame is on the modern consumer wanting more more more, for sure. It’s stupid to me but people should be able to get what they want period. The Europeans can go hell with their little junk cars, whiz motors.

Regulation can go too far, but I think historical perspective is important. If businesses looked after themselves, you'd see less of it. Things like seatbelts that we take for granted today and save tons of lives (and tons of money and resources by reducing injury rates) for example. Most of the regulations have somebody's name on them that were engaged in short term profit thinking or shifting costs (like making someone else shoulder the cost of pollution clean up).

Where I'm having issue with it isn't air bags, ABS, and backup cameras. None of that adds significantly to cost and the savings on the back end of fewer crashes, fewer deaths, etc. more than make up for it. My concern is the built in spyware that's going to monitor you and decide via AI programming if you're allowed to drive or not. If the computer thinks you are drunk or too sleepy and doesn't let you drive, you have no recourse.

As far as Europe, it depends on where but small cars are often best cars. You can't drive larger vehicles on streets that used to be literally ox cart roads. I resist the "free upgrade" to a bigger rental when offered because a RAV-4 is the equivalent of a Suburban-L sometimes. I wouldn't want an econobox hatch on US highways with the 70-80mph speed limits, but I've seen the Austin Powers turn being accomplished by a Grand Cherokee or similar a time or two in Europe as well.

 

[Dave Haddon]

So it would appear refreshing your Ram with parts might be the best plan. Stock pile the major components and keep the Hemi running .

 

[91rt]

Theres a Heavy Duty work truck in Michigan I was eye'ing up in February still sitting there with no movement. I saw the price actually increased this week as some of the incentives must have lapsed. I can't see any of these trucks selling locally either as I drive by weekly and the same rams are sitting in the lots. It used to be you'd see new inventory every few weeks to a month at the longest, but now it seems they just sit as no one can pony up for the over priced trucks at a higher rate.

 

[Docwagon1776]

So it would appear refreshing your Ram with parts might be the best plan. Stock pile the major components and keep the Hemi running .

Every now and then I kick around the notion of buying an older full size Bronco, Ramcharger, or Blazer and setting it up as a daily driver/road trip machine. Then I realize I don't need another hobby and I don't need a 4th vehicle. Then I argue with myself and it gets weird.

 

[BenchTest]

Every now and then I kick around the notion of buying an older full size Bronco, Ramcharger, or Blazer and setting it up as a daily driver/road trip machine. Then I realize I don't need another hobby and I don't need a 4th vehicle. Then I argue with myself and it gets weird.

Glad I'm not the only one with this issue. I walk around rambling about "I need to find a K Series Blazer, unmolested, set it up for..." Yeah...wife is sick of it. I think I am too, then I start talking about it again.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Glad I'm not the only one with this issue. I walk around rambling about "I need to find a K Series Blazer, unmolested, set it up for..." Yeah...wife is sick of it. I think I am too, then I start talking about it again.

My wife just nods and says, "do what you want." She knows. I've been "putting a new stereo in the Camaro this year" for about 5 years now. No need to rush into a decision like this, let it simmer for a decade or two.

 

[Dusty]

So much of this has to do with Government regulation and market manipulation. Automakers constantly have to keep up with safety and emissions regulations that really adds to cost and complexity issues. Also a steady diet of artificially low interest rates (the fed) over the last 10 years or so have made it so people are willing to buy WAY more vehicle than they can actually afford. This goes for almost anything these days too. This caused a lot of people to want or demand more tech stuff, more power, bigger better etc. All this along with most people not having actual money or skills or time to deal with repairs and maintenance beyond the warranty period. Everything thing has become throw away or replaceable. People and businesses respond to incentives good or bad whether they reealize it or not. Automakers are no different. I’ve certainly enjoyed much of the upside of all this, being 35 and coming up in this environment, but I’ve also made a few financial decisions that have cost me financial peace for nothing more than just wanting something I didn’t need. People really need to wake up to fact that personal choice and responsibility are being decimated by government interference and incentive structures. We have a quasi crony capitalist managed economy and we will see how well that works out. There’s so much more here that ties into all this, it is complex for sure. I’m just a dumb Electrician that needs to get to work.

Emission and fuel mileage regulations come directly from the EPA. The EPA is an independent organization established, not by Congress like the other alphabet agencies, but by presidential executive order. The EPA HAS NEVER sent a regulation to Congress for approval, in violation of the Administrative Procedure Act.

EPA rules are made by unelected bureaucrats who take direction from the president and as such are unconstitutional.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115319 miles.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Not sure about government, but I will say as having worked in powertrain and engine development for 22 years EPA outlived its mandate and is micro regulating to try to keep their nonvalue jobs. Ask me for examples. I got stories about increasing product costs by 30% for a less than 1% reduction in emissions.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Emission and fuel mileage regulations come directly from the EPA. The EPA is an independent organization established, not by Congress like the other alphabet agencies, but by presidential executive order.

Congress authorized the EPA. See both NEPA and Nixon's Reorganization Plan No. 3.

EPA rules are made by unelected bureaucrats who take direction from the president and as such are unconstitutional.

The recent Loper Bright SCOTUS decision overturning the 1984 Chevron ruling is certainly going to make this a spicy issue. It will be interesting to see how the landscape changes with both the EPA and other regulatory bodies. If you hold your breath right now, you can hear lawyers stampeding toward DC.

 

[tjfdesmo]

Petty Tyrants, and bloated bureaucrats will not give up so easily. They are drunk with power.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Congress authorized the EPA. See both NEPA and Nixon's Reorganization Plan No. 3.



The recent Loper Bright SCOTUS decision overturning the 1984 Chevron ruling is certainly going to make this a spicy issue. It will be interesting to see how the landscape changes with both the EPA and other regulatory bodies. If you hold your breath right now, you can hear lawyers stampeding toward DC.

The lawyers always win, because it depends what the meaning of 'is', is.

Can you tell how much we engineers love lawyers?

 

[Dusty]

Congress authorized the EPA. See both NEPA and Nixon's Reorganization Plan No. 3.



The recent Loper Bright SCOTUS decision overturning the 1984 Chevron ruling is certainly going to make this a spicy issue. It will be interesting to see how the landscape changes with both the EPA and other regulatory bodies. If you hold your breath right now, you can hear lawyers stampeding toward DC.

The EPA as an Article 2 agency was never authorized by Congress. NEPA was established as a congressional declaration to consolidate the duties of a number of environmental agencies at the time and direct all federal agencies to follow EPA guidelines. NEPA was not a congressional authorization of EPA as an Article 2 entity.​

What is the National Environmental Policy Act? | US EPA
Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115388 miles.