Transmission pan and fluid change questions

[JHoward]

All of them go cheap,FCA try save as much as they can ,on the classic 1500 ram,they eliminated the plastic engine top cover.

It's just a good thing that the engine cover was eliminated, all it did was catch dirt and dust and allowed the engine to stay hotter ...jm2¢

 

[SitKneelBend]

I got my truck back last Tuesday, "after a six month off the frame restoration" and I'm getting ready to do the tranny drain/fill using the PPE pan.

I'll need to get a couple of more quarts of transmission fluid, after reading these last couple of posts ... I'll have to look up the torq/tighten sequence, again.

To be clear, there are two different PPE pans, one with 1 extra quart capacity and another deeper pan with 2 extra quarts. Mine was the latter...

 

[SitKneelBend]

If the convertor is working faster,and it's shifting good,that leads me to think your truck had the bare mininium amount of fluid to start with.
The cars are famous for shipping with the diff fluid low,and i think it's all done to cut costs.If they save a few cents per vehicle,by shipping them with the bare amount of fluids,the bean counters are happy,customer not so much,lol

That's kinda what I was thinking too. I just wanted a sanity check to make sure I didn't miss something. I am starting to notice that the transmission seems to have a little more get up to it. I did an unintentional gravel skid at the garden center pulling out onto the road.

One more question, if I crack this open again to check fluid level in a week or so, is it necessary to to anything but level it and turn it on? I'm thinking that so long as it hasn't been drained and I'm just checking level their should be no need to rotate through gears with the wheels off the ground again (maybe just drive it around the block and start checking from their once it's raised).

 

[Wild one]

That's kinda what I was thinking too. I just wanted a sanity check to make sure I didn't miss something. I am starting to notice that the transmission seems to have a little more get up to it. I did an unintentional gravel skid at the garden center pulling out onto the road.

One more question, if I crack this open again to check fluid level in a week or so, is it necessary to to anything but level it and turn it on? I'm thinking that so long as it hasn't been drained and I'm just checking level their should be no need to rotate through gears with the wheels off the ground again (maybe just drive it around the block and start checking from their once it's raised).

You still need to get the rear tires about 8 to 10 inches in the air to level the transmission,so i'd just redo the procedure,instead of driving it around the block. By the time you drive it around the block and leave it idling while you jack it up,there's a good chance you'll have exceeded the max checking temp,as you won't want to shut it off to jack it up,otherwise everything drains back out of the clutch circuits.

 

[Wild one]

A lot of guys empty the torque coverter after the process...but lot harder on these tranny's. Why they didn't insist on a way to adapt a dipstick tube I'll never figure out. Oh...I understand why from a cost/service standpoint, but from a mechanic's standpoint...it sure doesn't help matters.

A convertor drain would be a good idea,but putting a dipstick into the transmission when the fluid level sits well above the pan rail,probably isn't really feasable,especially when you factor in the amount of manufactures who use the 8 speed,throw in the fact only the Ram trucks slant the transmission down,everything else from a Rolls Royce / BMW /Audi and basically every car configuration the transmission is installed in,has the transmission sitting virtually level in the chassis.
What would be really good is if they used the Audi programming,as it has the best shift programming,along with rev matching the downshifts.

 

[JHoward]

Ok, I used the info here and from loads of videos to service my 845RE in my 3.6L Ram yesterday at 81,100 miles. I'm looking to pick some brains (especially @Wild one ) with regards to my experience. Couple of things to note first...

1. I used this PPE Pan with an advertised 2 quarts additional capacity

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RJK9H2W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

2. I Have Bilstein 5100s at 2.1" on the truck (raising the front stock rake to level the truck)

I had to raise the truck nearly 12" in the rear to get the transmission pan rail almost level (I ran out of height on the floor jack and the bubble was about a 1/4 -1/5 off level). Not alarming as I see his as a result of the front being raised an additional 2" over stock height. I drained the truck from stone cold, sat overnight at least 16 hours in my workshop and was never started before draining. The expected amount of transmission Fluid came out at a little over the 5qt mark in my drain pan (if I had to guess I'd say 5 1/2qts).

On to filling, following the procedures on the green card and keeping in mind I'm using a pan that holds an additional two quarts, I was able to fill the transmission with nearly 9 quarts of fluid. 4 ounces were left over in the 9th quart after emptying all of the bottles into one to get a better idea of how much was used (the bottom of each quart had fluid left that the pump didn't reach. There were also times during the prefill (before engine start) and the running fill (with engine started) that if I didn't have the barbed end of the pump in and angled just right fluid would come out during pumping from splashing off an interior transmission part (I believe this amount was negligible though maybe 1/2quart of waste total throughout the service). The temperature at engine start was 77 degrees for the transmission.

Prior to service, I didn't really have any problems with the transmission other than if I started the truck and immediately shifted into gear to go it would take a while for things to spin up and start moving the truck forward out of the garage from a cold start (maybe 5-10 seconds, is this the torque convertor filling?). In addition, over the past 10 years of ownership I would experience hard downshifts from 8-7 or 7-6 at highway speeds only if the vehicle was driven for a long time (2-3+ hours).

I took the vehicle on a test drive yesterday after service and everything shifts smooth. No difference from before service. This morning I wanted to see what it acted like driving immediately after startup and it started moving quickly at idle with no hesitation (but I had to back out when normally I'm pulling forward so I'll get a better comparison tomorrow). I expected my temperatures to be lower with the PPE pan but at 81 degrees for the initial drive the temperatures reached 194 and at 61 degrees today the temperature was about 188 (prior to the change my temperatures would run anywhere from 185-195 under normal driving no load).

My only real concern and question for everyone is: is the amount of fluid it took to get the fluid to run out of the fill port with the truck leveled? I was between temps when I filled the almost 9qts and buttoned her up, when I got up and around to the other side of the truck to turn off the temps was 125, but I believe I was already done before it reached that temperature and was just slow in turning it off (temp get warm pretty quick on this). Is it possible to drain the expected 5qts from the stock pan and still have been running low on transmission fluid this whole time (possibly explaining the time it took to get power from the engine to the wheels on a cold start)? If it was low, I wonder if this could also explain the rough shifting on longer drives at highway speeds and flooring it to pass (sometimes).

Here are some pictures from my service for reference, do these magnets seem like they have an excessive amount of material on them for 81,100 miles and no prior service to the transmission?

View attachment 542417View attachment 542418View attachment 542419View attachment 542420View attachment 542421

...16 hours to drain? I'm curious is there a reason for that long of time to "drain" the tranny ...?

I have installed @caulk04 transmission heater by- pass valve, so, doing the drain/refill, I'll have a lot longer "window" on the tranny fill, due to the heater by-pass valve will keep the transmission cooler ...

My HEMI is an 2017 @ 50, 000 miles. But, I'm just not sure after my trucks "off the frame restoration", that the collision repair center knows/knew how to do the tranny fill on the 8 speed ... even after explaining my concerns about the "fluids" that they used to "top" everything back off.

I have bought specific MOPAR engine coolant and MOPAR transmission fluids to "start all over" just for peace of mind. Cost isn't a concern, lol.

 

[Wild one]

...16 hours to drain? I'm curious is there a reason for that long of time to "drain" the tranny ...?

I have installed @caulk04 transmission heater by- pass valve, so, doing the drain/refill, I'll have a lot longer "window" on the tranny fill, due to the heater by-pass valves will keep the transmission cooler ...

My HEMI is an 2017 @ 50, 000 miles. But, I'm just not sure after my trucks "off the frame restoration", that the collision repair center knows/knew how to do the tranny fill on the 8 speed ... even after explaining my concerns about the "fluids" that they used to "top" everything back off.

I have bought specific MOPAR engine coolant and MOPAR transmission fluids to "start all over" just for peace of mind. Cost isn't a concern, lol.

Sounds like he pulled the pan in the afternoon,then let it sit overnight till the next morning,not really a bad idea,as it lets the transmission drain a bit more.
I usually tell guys to drain the transmission when they get home,and it's still warm,and then do the new pan install and fill procedure the next morning.
You definitely don't have to do it that way if you don't want to wait overnight though.

 

[JHoward]

Sounds like he pulled the pan in the afternoon,then let it sit overnight till the next morning,not really a bad idea,as it lets the transmission drain a bit more.
I usually tell guys to drain the transmission when they get home,and it's still warm,and then do the new pan install and fill procedure the next morning.
You definitely don't have to do it that way if you don't want to wait overnight though.

Rick, what is the tightening bolt pattern and torq setting, or does that matter?

 

[Wild one]

Rick, what is the tightening bolt pattern and torq setting, or does that matter?

I'll have to look it up,lol..I just use a 1/4 drive ratchet and just hand tighten them,starting in the middle,and working my way out in a every increasing circle.

 

[Wild one]

Looks like about 89 to 90 in-lbs for the pan bolts

 

[JHoward]

Lol, this is why I'm concerned about my RAM trucks transmission fluid/rad fluids, etc ... my truck was disassembled/re-built/repaired and put on to a new frame.

The collision repair center has an 5 Star rating, but seemed intrigued about my concerns about engine coolant fluids/transmission fill procedure.

<edit> This pic is of after all the frontal rad/fender supports has been replaced.

 

[JHoward]

... after repairs. Exactly six months(Nov. 2 last year to May 2, this year).

I'll post a better pic later.

 

[Wild one]

Lol, this is why I'm concerned about my RAM trucks transmission fluid/rad fluids, etc ... my truck was disassembled/re-built/repaired and put on to a new frame.

The collision repair center has an 5 Star rating, but seemed intrigued about my concerns about engine coolant fluids/transmission fill procedure.

<edit> This pic is of after all the frontal rad/fender supports has been replaced.

I'm still amazed they didn't write it off. Does it still steer good?

 

[JHoward]

Ok, back on topic ... I purchased 8 quarts MOPAR ATF/ Transmission Fluid for 8/9 speed transmissions, I'll get a couple of more quarts, to make sure I have enough ... I'm going to use the PPE larger capacity pan ... is this ok or should I have bought the Valvoline brand ATF ... again, cost isn't a factor.

 

[Wild one]

Ok, back on topic ... I purchased 8 quarts MOPAR ATF/ Transmission Fluid for 8/9 speed transmissions, I'll get a couple of more quarts, to make sure I have enough ... I'm going to use the PPE larger capacity pan ... is this ok or should I have bought the Valvoline brand ATF ... again, cost isn't a factor.

That's all i've ever used is the Mopar 8/9 speed fluid.

 

[Atcer2018]

Rick, what is the tightening bolt pattern and torq setting, or does that matter?

Here is the link to ZF website on tech specs for torque and tightening sequence.

https://aftermarket.zf.com/app/controller/ti/download/Binary/ef1782ec-846c-11ee-a2fd-00505690da53.pdf

 

[JHoward]

Here is the link to ZF website on tech specs for torque and tightening sequence.

https://aftermarket.zf.com/app/controller/ti/download/Binary/ef1782ec-846c-11ee-a2fd-00505690da53.pdf

Thanks very much for that.

 

[Atcer2018]

To be clear, there are two different PPE pans, one with 1 extra quart capacity and another deeper pan with 2 extra quarts. Mine was the latter...

I have the PPE pan with one quart extra capacity on my 845RE and it took 7 quarts. My OEM pan drain was 5 1/2 quarts so I’m with you on the factory fill being a little low.

For me the extra fluid capacity made almost no difference in operating temperature.

 

[SitKneelBend]

Thanks very much for that.

To pile on, your PPE pan will have very clear printed instructions with the bolt pattern sequence.

 

[Atcer2018]

To pile on, your PPE pan will have very clear printed instructions with the bolt pattern sequence.

Did you use the factory spacers? Those were a PITA to press into the PPE pan without having a press.