What the f….death wobble

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rzr6-4

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Sorry for the essay, just trying to be thorough.

09 2500, 204k miles, recently leveled with Eibach coils & shocks, 35x12R18 tires.

A few years ago back when I had no level and smaller tires I had my first instance of death wobble going down the interstate. Same set up happened a second time a year or year and a half later. I don’t remember exactly where in the timeline this fits but at one point I realized my drag link ends were shot so I replaced it, so it is fairly new. Then I put the bigger tires on it about a year and a half ago but still no real issues for about a year, then suddenly after having DW again it became more and more frequent. It became once a month, then once a week, now it’s gotten to where there’s a couple rough roads near my house that I just can’t drive on because it’s guaranteed.

Steering has recently started to feel a little bit weird, simultaneously heavy and resistant but also twitchy at the same time, it’s really weird. When I feel the fateful jiggle, sometimes it’s very subtle at first and then goes full, and sometimes it’s just zero to hold on in a heartbeat.

What I’ve checked/done to try and fix it:
  1. I’ve tightened up the worm gear in the steering box a couple times recently as the death wall seems to knock it loose, but tightening it up only seems to be a temporary fix. I am aware that there is such a thing as too tight, I am tightening it up just enough to were it gets rid of most of the play in the steering but still allows for smooth travel.
  2. Normally I run my tires at 33psi, the wobble got to be extremely frequent so I checked and they were at 28. Bumped them back to 33 and it kept happening so now they are at 40, just trying to make them more rigid to prevent wobble.
  3. A couple weeks ago I had the front end off the ground and I tried to lift the wheels up and down with no play, so wheel bearings and ball joints should be good.
  4. Five minutes ago I checked the drag link again, tie rod ends are rock solid, and track bar doesn’t seem to move from me yanking on it so I think it’s good.
  5. I haven’t checked but I didn’t used to have issues and I haven’t touched it so I have no reason to believe that my toe is off for any reason.
  6. After doing some reading on the website, I see that my caster is not where it should be and I need to add some back in, but again it’s always been like that and it didn’t used to have issues.
I guess a couple things I can think of that I haven’t looked at is are bushings on the control arms, but I’ve never heard of anyone having that issue so I don’t know how likely that would be.

Second would be the steering stabilizer, but as I’ve seen others suggest, the stabilizer is just masking an issue somewhere else, if everything is as it should be the stabilizer shouldn’t be that important. If it is shot though, I have no idea how to check that.

I am running out of things to check so I will take any suggestions at this point. It does OK on gravel but no matter where I’m going I have at least 10 miles of payment to get there so as far as I’m concerned I have a $10,000 chunk of scrap metal sitting in the driveway if I can’t get this thing figured out. My old mechanic got bought out by some young guys that so far I’m pretty unimpressed with so I would really like to be able to figure it out without having to take it anywhere.
 

BenchTest

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Wobble is wear. Something is deflecting due to wear (outside of tires being the issue or a bent wheel). You'll have to find what's worn out.
 

wrench78

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You have checked everything that I would have suggested. Only other thing I can think of, is check the wheel balance. Maybe you threw some wheel weights.

NOOOO, a second stabilizer will not help. All that will do, is mask the problem. Not fix it. With a proper setup, you should be able to run with no steering stabilizer. I had a fully lifted and built Jeep Wrangler and run with zero stabilizers. drove straight as an arrow.
 

jws123

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After rebuilding the whole front end on my old ram 09 2500 years back this is only thing that fixed myd eath wobble aswell as a good alignment or you could replace the steering box and not need this brace i guess.?
 
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rzr6-4

rzr6-4

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Update: I'm a little rarded and didn't take into account that I've been in the mud lately and had a bunch on my wheels. Washed them and dropped tires back to 34psi and it's already way better. That said, I didn't even think about these:

If (when) it comes back I will look into getting one. Credit card is already crying so trying to avoid the extra $170 at the moment.

Also, I did take a closer look at things today and there is an ever so slight amount of lateral play in the upper ball joint on both sides. Very very small, hard to feel and almost impossible to see. Wheel bearing that would mean it's on its way out and needs replaced but is that the case for ball joints as well?
 

Daw14

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If you can see movement,when it’s got weight on it it’s going to be worse . A little play here and there adds up quickly.
 

Dean2

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The front end in the Gen 2s already have issues with all brand new parts, any play at all, replace the part. Running bigger tires naturally causes more wear, and as you saw, a little mud packed into the rim messes up balance. Any slight bend in a rim or out of balance can give you a very nasty DW. Add to that some play and it gets out of hand pretty fast.
 

Old Senior

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Sorry for the essay, just trying to be thorough.

09 2500, 204k miles, recently leveled with Eibach coils & shocks, 35x12R18 tires.

A few years ago back when I had no level and smaller tires I had my first instance of death wobble going down the interstate. Same set up happened a second time a year or year and a half later. I don’t remember exactly where in the timeline this fits but at one point I realized my drag link ends were shot so I replaced it, so it is fairly new. Then I put the bigger tires on it about a year and a half ago but still no real issues for about a year, then suddenly after having DW again it became more and more frequent. It became once a month, then once a week, now it’s gotten to where there’s a couple rough roads near my house that I just can’t drive on because it’s guaranteed.

Steering has recently started to feel a little bit weird, simultaneously heavy and resistant but also twitchy at the same time, it’s really weird. When I feel the fateful jiggle, sometimes it’s very subtle at first and then goes full, and sometimes it’s just zero to hold on in a heartbeat.

What I’ve checked/done to try and fix it:
  1. I’ve tightened up the worm gear in the steering box a couple times recently as the death wall seems to knock it loose, but tightening it up only seems to be a temporary fix. I am aware that there is such a thing as too tight, I am tightening it up just enough to were it gets rid of most of the play in the steering but still allows for smooth travel.
  2. Normally I run my tires at 33psi, the wobble got to be extremely frequent so I checked and they were at 28. Bumped them back to 33 and it kept happening so now they are at 40, just trying to make them more rigid to prevent wobble.
  3. A couple weeks ago I had the front end off the ground and I tried to lift the wheels up and down with no play, so wheel bearings and ball joints should be good.
  4. Five minutes ago I checked the drag link again, tie rod ends are rock solid, and track bar doesn’t seem to move from me yanking on it so I think it’s good.
  5. I haven’t checked but I didn’t used to have issues and I haven’t touched it so I have no reason to believe that my toe is off for any reason.
  6. After doing some reading on the website, I see that my caster is not where it should be and I need to add some back in, but again it’s always been like that and it didn’t used to have issues.
I guess a couple things I can think of that I haven’t looked at is are bushings on the control arms, but I’ve never heard of anyone having that issue so I don’t know how likely that would be.

Second would be the steering stabilizer, but as I’ve seen others suggest, the stabilizer is just masking an issue somewhere else, if everything is as it should be the stabilizer shouldn’t be that important. If it is shot though, I have no idea how to check that.

I am running out of things to check so I will take any suggestions at this point. It does OK on gravel but no matter where I’m going I have at least 10 miles of payment to get there so as far as I’m concerned I have a $10,000 chunk of scrap metal sitting in the driveway if I can’t get this thing figured out. My old mechanic got bought out by some young guys that so far I’m pretty unimpressed with so I would really like to be able to figure it out without having to take it anywhere.
I had a bad death wobble years ago on a 1997 Ram. Turned out it was defective tires. Convinced the tire store and got them to replace them. That solved my problem.
 

Marshall

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Sounds like the gear box is worn out .
If it needs adjustment, something is bad in it.
bearing shot maybe.
Wiggling a tire when it's sitting on the ground will not show much.
Take it to a alignment shop.
 

Dean2

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Sounds like the gear box is worn out .
If it needs adjustment, something is bad in it.
bearing shot maybe.
Wiggling a tire when it's sitting on the ground will not show much.
Take it to a alignment shop.
Agree with alignment shop, however, needing to adjust the worm gear is not a sign the steering box is worn out. At one time all steering boxes had this adjustment for taking slack out of the system. When you run out of adjustment, then it is time for a rebuild.
 
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rzr6-4

rzr6-4

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Wiggling a tire when it's sitting on the ground will not show much.

It wasn't on the ground. Not sure why you say that.

Sounds like the gear box is worn out .

This has occurred to me. Like @Dean2 suggests, I don't know that having to adjust it is the end of the world but the fact that I've had to do it twice in the last 6 months is a little concerning.

As far as alignment, I tried to adjust my caster this last weekend but the caster bolts were totally seized. Stood on a 2ft breaker and the head of the breaker started to bend, the bolt not so much. If push comes to shove on the issue I can cut the bolts and get new bolts & bushings, but I'm sure any alignment shop is going to want me to do all new control arms. Way more $ than I would be willing to spend on a caster adjustment.
 

Dean2

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It wasn't on the ground. Not sure why you say that.



This has occurred to me. Like @Dean2 suggests, I don't know that having to adjust it is the end of the world but the fact that I've had to do it twice in the last 6 months is a little concerning.

As far as alignment, I tried to adjust my caster this last weekend but the caster bolts were totally seized. Stood on a 2ft breaker and the head of the breaker started to bend, the bolt not so much. If push comes to shove on the issue I can cut the bolts and get new bolts & bushings, but I'm sure any alignment shop is going to want me to do all new control arms. Way more $ than I would be willing to spend on a caster adjustment.
If you are adjusting the steering box that often you either have slack somewhere else in the system, or you need to open up the steering box and see if there is something worn. Have you checked for slack in the rod that connects from the firewall to the steering box.

I installed a Borgeson steering shaft in my 1996 2500. Made a huge difference. They also sell top quality steering boxes, bushings etc.

 
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rzr6-4

rzr6-4

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If you are adjusting the steering box that often you either have slack somewhere else in the system, or you need to open up the steering box and see if there is something worn. Have you checked for slack in the rod that connects from the firewall to the steering box.

I installed a Borgeson steering shaft in my 1996 2500. Made a huge difference. They also sell top quality steering boxes, bushings etc.

I did not know that opening and inspecting the steering box was a thing you could do. I will have to give that a shot.

The shaft from the steering wheel does have a little play, but not much. I could possibly see myself replacing it at some point but with no more wobble than it has, I would think the main culprit would be elsewhere.
 

Nickx86

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If your running a leveling kit, your whole axle is shifted to one side now unless you upgraded your track bar as well. Might not be worn out but different forces in your track bar might be just enough to start the death wobble. Also like other members have said, steering box shouldn’t need to be adjusted, probably worn out which is not helping.
 

Dusty

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At 204,000 miles you may have a stack-up of loose tolerances in various components that are contributing to your issue.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115871 miles.
 
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