Stellantis US Sales Fall 21%, Rolls Out $2,000 Incentive To Stop The Bleeding

runamuck · Jul 8, 2024

the dealer near me has 18 ram 2500's. 7 are laremies from 79,000 to 92,000 with 10,000 off.

BenchTest · Jul 8, 2024

ColoradoCub64 said:
Ram has a significant inventory around here but it’s nothing like Ford, there are F150’s for miles at the dealerships and they don’t have anything by way of a discounts or rebates combined with garbage financing. I don’t know what these dealers will need to do to get these trucks sold. Even $10,000 off these F150’s isn’t a good deal when they are MSRP’d at about $10,000 more than they were a few years ago.

Yeah, I about fell over (laughing) when I went to my local Ford lot for a look-see. Lot was covered corner to corner, back lot full... cheapest full-size truck was $56k. Saw some for $120k as well. To quote one of my favorite movies (Young Guns II) "you can go to hell, hell, hell" with those prices.

tsjazz2002 · Jul 8, 2024

Yardbird said:
View attachment 546158

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...S&cvid=05d943c01d1d46228c3c3a358c853d42&ei=16

Buyer Beware..... While they may offer a discount in one hand, in the other hand they have increased the price. In 2020 I paid $43k for my Ram Laramie 5.7 Blackout with just about every option short of 4 wheel drive. It listed for $58k. Today that same truck at the same dealership is listed for $72k and discounted to low $60k.

KC5TGQ · Jul 8, 2024

The Euro Leadership of Stellantis are deaf to the North American market. The 2019 Ram 1500 was a game changer. Stellantis had a jump on competition and blew it. Greed and poor business decisions. Firing American Engineers and replacing with Indian, Mexican and Pakistani engineers is just ridiculous. Look for RAM/JEEP brands to wither away.

BenchTest · Jul 8, 2024

KC5TGQ said:
The Euro Leadership of Stellantis are deaf to the North American market. The 2019 Ram 1500 was a game changer. Stellantis had a jump on competition and blew it. Greed and poor business decisions. Firing American Engineers and replacing with Indian, Mexican and Pakistani engineers is just ridiculous. Look for RAM/JEEP brands to wither away.

Well, as long as the jacka$$ who "engineered" the 3.6 Pentastar oil cooler got fired, I'm OK with it. He should be swinging from a tree as an example to all other engineers of what not to do.

ColoradoCub64 · Jul 8, 2024

BenchTest said:
Yeah, I about fell over (laughing) when I went to my local Ford lot for a look-see. Lot was covered corner to corner, back lot full... cheapest full-size truck was $56k. Saw some for $120k as well. To quote one of my favorite movies (Young Guns II) "you can go to hell, hell, hell" with those prices.

Yeah it’s not even close, the Ram dealer is across the street from the Ford dealership. Ram has like 25 1500’s, and 30 2500’s, Ford has more leftover brand new 2023’s than the Ram dealer has new 1500’s. There’s over 100 F150’s in inventory and with like $3,000 off the new inflated MSRPS’s it’s laughable.

ColoradoCub64 · Jul 8, 2024

tsjazz2002 said:
Buyer Beware..... While they may offer a discount in one hand, in the other hand they have increased the price. In 2020 I paid $43k for my Ram Laramie 5.7 Blackout with just about every option short of 4 wheel drive. It listed for $58k. Today that same truck at the same dealership is listed for $72k and discounted to low $60k.

This is exactly the problem, they have raised the MSRP so much that now even what was once considered a good discount isn’t anything to celebrate, you end up paying what was full MSRP not long ago.

NashTT · Jul 8, 2024

Normally I would have traded years ago, but in 2010 I ran across a 2008 Ram 1500 Big Horn that was perfectly equipped for me. Sold my 2005 Powerstroke (wrecked, repaired, not the same) and never looked back. Turns out the truck was special ordered by the dealer’s sales manager. Lots of people will tell you that doesn’t make a difference, but 16 years later I’d say it does. Only non routine maintenance was a failed a/c compressor at 11 years old, and in South Florida that’s a required option 11 1/2 months a year. Oil changes, manifold bolt tightening and belt/hose are about it. Haven’t even lost the clear coat and it stays in the sun. It’s a Daimler/Benz but I don’t think that matters. Rides quiet, no rattles or noises, same power as new, a real pleasure to own. Still have the dealer look it over before trailer (6500 lbs.) towing each year and never fails that the service manager and the mechanic want to make me an offer on it. I’ve reached 70 and I’ve started to believe the truck will outlast me (son wants it, he’ll have it). While saying they don’t make them like that anymore is trite, it applies. Also shows what car makers can be capable of when care is taken all along the line. I would never buy anything anyone is producing new today because I don’t think they care.

Dusty · Jul 8, 2024

BenchTest said:
Right. Is it too much to ask that the American truck market has a usable, utility truck for the average homeowner? Ranger-sized, Dakota-sized? Decent V-6 powerplant, reliable transmission, a manual option, something the used-to-be-middle-class working guy can buy and afford to operate, while still being able to eat and keep the lights on? Base model trucks starting in the high $40's is ridiculous. Turbo 4's in full-sized $60k trucks is ridiculous. 92 speed transmission and a 4.88 gear to get it down the road at 70mph, all the while hunting for a gear to be in, ridiculous. Want a V-8? That'll be a $75k truck. Want a diesel, sure, let's make that $75-$100k. I was just at Toyota's lot looking at their $51k Tacoma that's not top-trim. Just for grins I wanted to see the new body style and see how it was laid out. Turbo 4's, $51k. Yeah, I know, I'm all over the place. Bitter typing taking place. I've been through several new vehicles in the past 4 years. Problems after problems. Burned by GM. Burned by Toyota. Ford pissed me off because I couldn't get a 2-speed transfer case without spending big money. Seems like there is a market for a basic, reliable vehicle, without all the extra BS at a decent price point. Probably a byproduct of the average American consumer wanting "pretty" and "techy" instead of usable and reliable. OK, I'll shut up now.

Auto manufacturers would argue that in recent years Americans have wanted "techy" and "pretty" and that's what gives them margin. In all fairness, automobile manufacturers are almost always behind the market curve.

In a recent article Travares admitted being "arrogant" in the direction of Chrysler by forcing policies that fit European mindset onto the North American market. His direction to stop making sedans, stop buying EPA credits 100% and the commitment to be a 100% electric vehicle producer is the epitome of arrogance, IMO. The question is will he fix it before he loses anymore top Chrysler people.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115215 miles.

Regcabguy · Jul 8, 2024

turkeybird56 said:
My neighbor just traded his 23 Lonestar for 24 Titan. Last year for Titan whole model discontinued. He wanted the 5.6L but more importantly U get a lot more safety tech in a Titan as compared to Lonestar so he traded to Nissan. Neither I nor my Nam Vet neighbor any younger and he wanted all the safety add ons.

Reliability sells not gadgets. Best braking, mpg and safety rating etc.

Regcabguy · Jul 8, 2024

Dodge 1500 4X4 said:
Let's talk about no dip stick and plasma arc cylinder sleeve liners, and yes, its Direct Injection set up for failure!!

Set up for a walnut shell scouring.

tsjazz2002 · Jul 8, 2024

ColoradoCub64 said:
This is exactly the problem, they have raised the MSRP so much that now even what was once considered a good discount isn’t anything to celebrate, you end up paying what was full MSRP not long ago.

It all comes down to supply and demand. First and foremost you try to never buy a new vehicle out of need. As long as it's your choice you can simply walk away. The second is you need to learn the game and understand you will never beat them at it you can just minimize the damage. Lastly, get all your ducks in a row before being your search. Have the money lined up, know what you want, know what you don't want, and decide your walking away point. I got what I believe to be a good deal because I controlled my controllables. I took advantage of a lean market and walked in with several strategies to take advantage of their greed. I might not have won but I damn sure took them into over time.

BenchTest · Jul 8, 2024

NashTT said:
Normally I would have traded years ago, but in 2010 I ran across a 2008 Ram 1500 Big Horn that was perfectly equipped for me. Sold my 2005 Powerstroke (wrecked, repaired, not the same) and never looked back. Turns out the truck was special ordered by the dealer’s sales manager. Lots of people will tell you that doesn’t make a difference, but 16 years later I’d say it does. Only non routine maintenance was a failed a/c compressor at 11 years old, and in South Florida that’s a required option 11 1/2 months a year. Oil changes, manifold bolt tightening and belt/hose are about it. Haven’t even lost the clear coat and it stays in the sun. It’s a Daimler/Benz but I don’t think that matters. Rides quiet, no rattles or noises, same power as new, a real pleasure to own. Still have the dealer look it over before trailer (6500 lbs.) towing each year and never fails that the service manager and the mechanic want to make me an offer on it. I’ve reached 70 and I’ve started to believe the truck will outlast me (son wants it, he’ll have it). While saying they don’t make them like that anymore is trite, it applies. Also shows what car makers can be capable of when care is taken all along the line. I would never buy anything anyone is producing new today because I don’t think they care.

I've done a lot of beeching about new vehicles lately on this forum. To be clear, I concede that newer technology generally speaking boosts the owner experience. Convenience, reliability (generally speaking compared to 90's and prior vehicles), MPG, comfort, crash survivability, etc. have come a LONG ways. My grievance, again to be clear, is the longevity of the vehicle vs. investment point. With the initial investment so stupidly high, I expect more out of a vehicle. We live in a throw away society and that applies almost across the board on new products in general. New vehicles are ridiculously expensive and not designed for the long haul. At least not in my experiences. I turned 50 today (happy birthday to me) and maybe I'm just having a "remember the good ol days" thought process. I grew up in a house of GM. Grandpa was a GM dealer amongst other things. Dad was a GM motorhead. I inherited the "take care of your vehicle and it'll outlast you" gene. I've been turning wrenches about as long as I've been able to stand upright and walk. I just don't feel like that exists any more in modern vehicles. Warranty is out? Toss it. Piles and PILES of used, late model vehicles all but abandoned on lots all over the country. People don't want to deal with it, don't have time, don't have the financial means to keep them in good repair after paying monthly payments on their stupidly expensive initial investments. They go upside-down into a new vehicle hoping to escape the previous vehicle's problems. Rinse and repeat. Glad you're having good returns on your truck. I'm still searching for that in a late model vehicle.

BenchTest · Jul 8, 2024

BenchTest said:
I've done a lot of beeching about new vehicles lately on this forum. To be clear, I concede that newer technology generally speaking boosts the owner experience. Convenience, reliability (generally speaking compared to 90's and prior vehicles), MPG, comfort, crash survivability, etc. have come a LONG ways. My grievance, again to be clear, is the longevity of the vehicle vs. investment point. With the initial investment so stupidly high, I expect more out of a vehicle. We live in a throw away society and that applies almost across the board on new products in general. New vehicles are ridiculously expensive and not designed for the long haul. At least not in my experiences. I turned 50 today (happy birthday to me) and maybe I'm just having a "remember the good ol days" thought process. I grew up in a house of GM. Grandpa was a GM dealer amongst other things. Dad was a GM motorhead. I inherited the "take care of your vehicle and it'll outlast you" gene. I've been turning wrenches about as long as I've been able to stand upright and walk. I just don't feel like that exists any more in modern vehicles. Warranty is out? Toss it. Piles and PILES of used, late model vehicles all but abandoned on lots all over the country. People don't want to deal with it, don't have time, don't have the financial means to keep them in good repair after paying monthly payments on their stupidly expensive initial investments. They go upside-down into a new vehicle hoping to escape the previous vehicle's problems. Rinse and repeat. Glad you're having good returns on your truck. I'm still searching for that in a late model vehicle.

And here's a positive. I'm sitting on my back porch smoking a Monte Cristo Edicion Diamante 1935 Anniversary, while my mesquite fire prepares itself to receive a Choice Select Aged 18oz ribeye. Sipping some 12yo double cask aged single malt. My gift to myself for making 50 (it was indeed a task and a struggle). All brought home by my 3.6 Pentastar Ram - LOL

EdGs · Jul 8, 2024

Got my '15 SLT w/28k miles for $21k in late '17.

Prices now, especially post-covid have gone stupid. A co-worker of mine just bought a Colorado w/4 cyl for $40k. Ridiculous

Sandevino · Jul 8, 2024

I scooped up my ‘23 with every option I wanted for $10k under MSRP back in September 2023. I test drove the I6 a bit ago and have zero interest in getting rid of the Hemi.

leftchevybehind · Jul 9, 2024

I won't be trading my '23 1500 for the I6. Nothing against it other than the price and the sound. I did like the sound of my previous '22 TurboMax Trailboss

AlexC2350 · Jul 9, 2024

So much of this has to do with Government regulation and market manipulation. Automakers constantly have to keep up with safety and emissions regulations that really adds to cost and complexity issues. Also a steady diet of artificially low interest rates (the fed) over the last 10 years or so have made it so people are willing to buy WAY more vehicle than they can actually afford. This goes for almost anything these days too. This caused a lot of people to want or demand more tech stuff, more power, bigger better etc. All this along with most people not having actual money or skills or time to deal with repairs and maintenance beyond the warranty period. Everything thing has become throw away or replaceable. People and businesses respond to incentives good or bad whether they reealize it or not. Automakers are no different. I’ve certainly enjoyed much of the upside of all this, being 35 and coming up in this environment, but I’ve also made a few financial decisions that have cost me financial peace for nothing more than just wanting something I didn’t need. People really need to wake up to fact that personal choice and responsibility are being decimated by government interference and incentive structures. We have a quasi crony capitalist managed economy and we will see how well that works out. There’s so much more here that ties into all this, it is complex for sure. I’m just a dumb Electrician that needs to get to work.

BenchTest · Jul 9, 2024

AlexC2350 said:
So much of this has to do with Government regulation and market manipulation. Automakers constantly have to keep up with safety and emissions regulations that really adds to cost and complexity issues. Also a steady diet of artificially low interest rates (the fed) over the last 10 years or so have made it so people are willing to buy WAY more vehicle than they can actually afford. This goes for almost anything these days too. This caused a lot of people to want or demand more tech stuff, more power, bigger better etc. All this along with most people not having actual money or skills or time to deal with repairs and maintenance beyond the warranty period. Everything thing has become throw away or replaceable. People and businesses respond to incentives good or bad whether they reealize it or not. Automakers are no different. I’ve certainly enjoyed much of the upside of all this, being 35 and coming up in this environment, but I’ve also made a few financial decisions that have cost me financial peace for nothing more than just wanting something I didn’t need. People really need to wake up to fact that personal choice and responsibility are being decimated by government interference and incentive structures. We have a quasi crony capitalist managed economy and we will see how well that works out. There’s so much more here that ties into all this, it is complex for sure. I’m just a dumb Electrician that needs to get to work.

Sounds like you're smart for your years. Glad you can see a bigger picture. We need more of your generation squared away with their thought processes. Have a good day.

Docwagon1776 · Jul 9, 2024

AlexC2350 said:
Automakers constantly have to keep up with safety and emissions regulations that really adds to cost and complexity issues. Also a steady diet of artificially low interest rates (the fed) over the last 10 years or so have made it so people are willing to buy WAY more vehicle than they can actually afford.

The second bit is more of a mover than the first bit. A Nissan Versa starts at under $18k and meets all requirements to be legally sold in the US, but who's buying it? Mazda, Toyota, and Honda all make a perfectly decent car for $22-25k-ish. A Versa is roughly 26% of the median US salary now. In 1995 the cheapest econobox was probably a Geo Metro, which was 28% of the median US salary and was a significantly more compromised vehicle. Essentially a plastic Easter egg with a 3 cylinder...

But who's making an inexpensive full size truck now? The makers have cut most of the low trim options out just because they have used the manufacturing capacity on higher optioned vehicles with a higher profit per unit return. Maybe we'll see a return to more downstream options. Base trucks and econoboxes sell pretty well when the cost of money is high. Understanding the irony of saying this as a PW owner, but everything has just gotten so bloated since the 80's and early 90's... but the pendulum always swings. Remember a modern Ford Ranger has the same footprint as a late 70's F-150... but consumers are panicky gazelles as soon as fuel prices go up, you can watch the foot print of vehicles roller coaster over the decades. Another reason Ford recognizes they need to get some equivalent of the Focus back in their lineup, be it ICE, EV, or hybrid.

Stellantis US Sales Fall 21%, Rolls Out $2,000 Incentive To Stop The Bleeding

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