2013 1500 Towing 7,000# with 2/4 and WDH - Does this seem right?

[1SLwLS1]

So I bought a tractor last week and have been preparing for transportation over the past few months. I also have a need to haul my Mustang around so that was also in consideration. I didn't want to get a basic 7K GVWR car hauler as I would be pushing the limits of that setup with the 4500# tractor and 4000# Mustang. The 10K GVWR trailers, IMO, are kind of a niche market as there are fewer people with an HD truck that would purchase a trailer so small and most half tons would stick with the 7K trailers. I ended up finding a 14K GVWR 20' trailer that only weighed 2500# (pretty close weight to that of the 7K car haulers) and figured this would be more than enough trailer and if I upgrade to a gooseneck with a 2500 truck down the road, this 14K trailer should be easier to unload.

The truck is a 2013 1500 with BellTech 2/4 and cut brackets with Core upper and lower control arms (installed a month ago) and Spohn panhard bar, stock sway bars, no rear bump stops. I purchased a Weigh Safe Middleweight WDH with the 12,500# spring arms and I am using the Weigh Safe app for all calculations and adjustments. When I first lowered it back in 2021, I had the AirLift 1000 helper bags installed but did not maintain the minimum pressure and ended up ruining them.

With an empty trailer and no spring arms, there is a smidge under 400# tongue weight, looks fairly compressed and rides horribly. I am guessing the 14K springs on the trailer with no load contribute to the very bouncy ride. I recently pulled a small utility trailer loaded with cut pine tress (probably a 4500-5000# total load) with a fixed 2" ball and the ride was smooth as glass, truck didn't know it was back there and much better experience than evening hauling the empty 14K trailer (much less tugging back and forth).

Anyhow, with the tractor and implements loaded and no spring arm, the truck was slammed and had around 900# tongue weight (couldn't really adjust anything on the trailer, the pallet forks and box blade were on the front with the tractor CG fairly centered over the rear trailer axle and couldn't move much in either direction with the cutter hanging off the back. When I added spring arms and cranked up to the calculated distributed tongue weight, there really wasn't much height added back to the rear tire-bed clearance. It was a pretty slow and white-knuckled ride home.

In the future, I probably wouldn't be towing the tractor with all of the implements so the weight would be a bit less and I would have more room fore and aft to better adjust tongue weight but what are my options with this setup to improve? I have heard bags and WDH don't really play well together or if you do use them, air the bags up prior to hitching up and distributing weight. Should I replace the helper bags? Replace the coil springs entirely with the Timbergrove setup? I am not a fan of this option necessarily due to the cost and reliability of a coil spring over the bag, plus I wouldn't know the proper process of adjusting that setup with the replacement bag.

Thoughts? Is my trailer grossly over weight? The sticker shows 14K GVWR and max trailer cargo of 11,600#? Are those often or ever wrong? Seems awfully dangerous and irresponsible for manufacturers to put incorrect information on those stickers.

Gauge picture below is with the unloaded trailer and no spring arms.

 

[Jas34]

Looks like you're way overloaded to me from your pic. Suggest taking it loaded to a cat scale and do the 3 weight thing so you know exactly what your trailer and tongue weights are, and what your hitch is doing for you. I'm guessing you'll find you're over your payload by a lot and over your max. rear axle rating. Not sure how weigh safe sets up their hitches. I use a tape measure at all 4 corners when I set up a hitch.

 

[1SLwLS1]

Yea, that is a good idea, I will do that this weekend, but just the truck and trailer, no need in loading up the tractor and implements, I have the weight of all of those items specifically from the manufacturer - the only guesswork on that would be the amount of antifreeze and water they added to the tires but that should be about 200#s +/- 50#s per tire but shouldn't affect anything as I am not near the trailer or truck towing capacity (in stock form). As long as tongue weight falls in line I should have around 3,000# of headroom of trailer GVWR.

As far as payload though and truck capacity, assuming I don't find anything alarming with the weight of the truck and/or trailer this weekend, I should not be overloaded. I had 900# on the tongue and just me and my wife in the truck, so maybe 350# there, no extra gear or anything, so I should be within my 1450-1550 payload max. The picture loaded is a bit deceiving as the ground slopes that way but the other (passenger) side while marginally better is not a whole lot better.

I am just asking about others with a similar setup with a lowered truck and their towing experiences and thoughts as everything I have read is that towing with a lowered truck while it may not be as comfortable, should still be just as capable. I don't know if replacing the airbags and lifting the truck would help or hurt as it is often recommended to not combine those two unique strategies.

 

[nlambert182]

Dont go by what your trucks max tow capacity is. You'll never get there. What's your payload sticker in the door say? A lot of 1500s are in the 1100-1400 lb range. Thats with stock everything. If you've modified it, theres a chance that it has been reduced even further. You could be (and likely are) overloaded on the truck.

I've towed with lowered trucks back in the day and it was uncomfortable at best. 1/10... wouldn't recommend.

 

[1SLwLS1]

I am basing max capacity off of payload, 1494, which would fall within the 10-15% tongue weight of max towing.

 

[CanRebel]

I am basing max capacity off of payload, 1494, which would fall within the 10-15% tongue weight of max towing.

As you mentioned some people say not use both. I disagree with that. They serve two different purposes, and sometimes both are needed.

Bags purpose is for sag.

WDH will distribute weight to front axle. If setup correctly, the WDH will also reduce sag.

Connect the trailer, adjust bags ( usually keep bags just little lower)
Then setup the WDH, you should be back to original height when you didn't have trailer.

If you need to adjust bags, always adjust the WDH after.

Go to a scale and check everything again, adjusting the WDH as needed.

 

[nlambert182]

I am basing max capacity off of payload, 1494, which would fall within the 10-15% tongue weight of max towing.

That number was based off of an unmodified stock suspension. My assumption is that you've likely degraded that with the suspension changes. It's likely never going to tow similarly to a stock truck without some serious help.

 

[1SLwLS1]

That number was based off of an unmodified stock suspension. My assumption is that you've likely degraded that with the suspension changes. It's likely never going to tow similarly to a stock truck without some serious help.

Handling similarly to a stock truck and towing capacity are different. From what I have read, the capacity should not be reduced based simply off of swapping those parts but the weight may be affected reducing the capacity.

After weighing the truck with hitch and truck with empty trailer this weekend, I was right under max capacity of the truck's 6,800 GVWR. The truck on the scales with the 100# WD hitch and no trailer with me (~200#) and a 1/2 tank of gas was at 5,660#. You add in the 900# tongue weight and very conservative/generous 150# of my wife, we were at 6,710# and assuming we had a full tank of gas instead (16 gal x 6#), we would've been 6# over the 6,800# max, but we were on a half tank and neither of us were in the truck in the picture above.

Now the trailer on the other hand, does not weigh what the sticker states on the trailer. The trailer is rated to 14,000# GVWR and shows a max cargo capacity of 11,600# which would make the trailer weigh 2,400# but after the scales, the trailer weighs 2,940# which would give the trailer a max cargo capacity of 11,060# so probably a dyslexic typo on the sticker, I am not sure how those work or are created. The trailer vendor also had the tires at 80# even though I asked them to be at 50#, which explained the rough ride when empty. After I hooked up the trailer, went to scales, and lowered the tire pressure, the truck and empty trailer rode much nicer.

I also found out the weight of the tractor was under by about 1,000# as the front end loader was not considered in that book weight for some reason. The sales guy was off on that one but I did more research and found the correct weight. When/if it needs to go for service or the next time it is on the trailer, I will weigh it with just the tractor and FEL.

With all of that information, I feel better with how the truck handled being essentially at the max limit of GVWR and GCWR. It didn't sway or bottom out on the axle but the rear tires rubbed and was a bouncy ride. I also needed new tires and instead of a 285/45, I went with a 305/40 so I am about 1/2" shorter in diameter. So anyone with a 2/4 drop - does yours similarly sag with that much tongue weight (900#)?

 

[2003F350]

Suggest you turn the tractor around and get the motor weight more over the tires of the trailer. You're working with a flatbed, you can 'manually adjust' your tongue weight somewhat to make things tow better.

Regardless, you're pushing the max of your truck. Be careful out there.

 

[1SLwLS1]

I'm not sure that would be the right move. The tongue weight was 900# for a ~8,500# load - are you suggesting less tongue weight...?

 

[2003F350]

I'm not sure that would be the right move. The tongue weight was 900# for a ~8,500# load - are you suggesting less tongue weight...?

Might not be, but that truck looks WAY overloaded, and I'd bet your steering wasn't very good during that pull, so moving the tractor back may have helped. For that kind of weight, I'd be looking for a bigger truck. Your lowered truck isn't liking it.

 

[1SLwLS1]

Steering and sway were both honestly fine, it was just really bouncy, naturally, with such limited "travel" and as I said earlier, I don't plan on regularly hauling (or at all) all of this together anyhow. I bought a Kubota and knock on wood, hopefully their reputation holds true.

From the threads and websites I have read, most people stated that towing with this lowering setup wasn't as comfortable but should not be limited, I am looking for anyone else that has hauled max capacity with a similar setup and to see if my experience aligns with theirs and if they did anything to improve their experience.

 

[mjoe7]

Trying to do truck things with a lowered truck is not ideal as you're finding out. It's almost like hooking up a El Camino. Although I understand your situation.
I'm not sure how much help I can be but here's my experience with what I have.
Details. 2018 1500 crew cab 4x4 stock height. Bilstein shocks rear, Bilstein struts front. HD Air Lift bags in the coil springs. Max psi is 50. Tires are Nitto Grapplers XL. Stock 20" wheel size.
I have a Eby aluminum deckover dove tail trailer. 14k rating.
I've hauled a 10,500 lb tractor on it before. The trick is balancing the tongue weight so it's not killing the truck. With the air bags at max psi I center the rear tractor wheels between the trailer tandems and that is the sweet spot for almost everything. It handles and rides perfectly like that even with the tractor lightened down to 8,000 lbs. The truck rides fairly level with this setup even with the front Bilstein struts set 1" higher than stock. Lastly do not ever under inflate trailer tires. You'll have sidewall blowouts. As it flexes it breaks down the composition of the sidewall. Unless they're radial tires. I had this issue and got higher ply tires before learning this advise. Now I have 14 ply tires aired up to the recommended 110 psi.
I hope this helps in some way. I know I'm heavier than the trucks technical rating at times but that's rarely done and with the trailer breaks and everything in tip-top shape it handles very well and controlled.

 

[joesstripclub]

I assume you know this, but trucks generally sit higher in the rear so they have some room to squat with a load on them, since they are designed to tow things. You essentially took all that squat room out with your lowering kit, so any weight on the truck is going to make it bottom out much quicker.

I bought a toy hauler last year, 7500-ish lb dry weight according to the dealer sticker (advertised as 6500 lb online, so I'm guessing its close to accurate). Advertised pin weight was 1000 to 1100 lb. Definitely over the capacity of the 1500 I had at the time, but I brought it home anyway thinking the WDH would help. I rode the bump stops home and it was very unpleasant, not unlike what your truck looks like in the pic. Long story short, I bought my Dad's 2500 power wagon he was looking to sell and it is a world of difference, even having similar specs on paper to the 1500. To relate to the comment above about adjusting your load balance, when I load my side by side (1500 lbs) into the toy hauler, the pin raises about an inch before any other adjustments. So yes keep the bulk of the weight toward the back of the trailer and it will help your pin weight a lot even though you are still towing the same total weight.

 

[jmc921]

I have 2014 crew cab express. According to the sticker on the truck it has a GVWR of 6,900# with a load capacity of 1,480#. This gives a vehicle weight of 5,420# (6,900 - 1,480). The other important item is the axle weight ratings which are 3,900# GAWR for both the front and the rear on this truck. There is a Ram Body Builder chart for this truck (and all other 2014 Ram 1500’s) and the towing capacity for my truck is listed as 7,950# based on 8HP70 transmission, 3.21 axle ratio, 5.7 V8 and 5’7” bed. The chart also lists a GCWR of 13,500# so the TOTAL weight of trailer and loaded truck should not exceed that number.

Based on all of that, it looks like you are seriously overloading your truck, mostly based on the combined weights of the vehicle and loaded trailer. Your numbers will be different based on engine, transmission, axle ratio, model, cab type and bed length but I don’t see how it can come up to the numbers you listed. I would be very concerned about the safety of towing this way.

I also have a Kubota tractor, a smaller BX23S TLB. I have taken it for service a couple of times using a rented U-Haul 6’ x 12’ trailer with ramp. I didn’t notice the weight of the trailer but my smaller tractor probably weighs between 4,500 and 5,000#. I have Falcon Tow/Haul shocks and , when I tow, I set the rears to their stiffest setting and this makes all the difference in the world and the towing is fairly smooth but I don’t think I would want to tow a much heavier set up on a regular basis.

 

[1SLwLS1]

As I have stated a few times, this was ideally a one time tow in this exact configuration. My truck has a GVWR of 6,800# and a GCWR of 15,650# per this link (Crew Cab 5’-7” bed 4x2 Sport w/8HP70 and 3.92 gears-pg. 6 about half way down). We were at ~6,710# truck and ~8,500# trailer for a total of ~15,210#. This was at the limit but not grossly over. Also, when I towed this, I was under the impression the tractor weighed about 1,000# less and the trailer should’ve weighed about 540# less which is why I thought I had some cushion.

I will be towing my 4,000-4,500# Mustang in the next week or two, I will try to post some pictures with the 7,500# load and towing characteristics.

 

[nlambert182]

Don't use a link... they're generic. All info needs to come from your sticker, because your truck may not be that exact configuration.

All that aside, I wish you the best with the next load. Maybe it will net a more positive result than the last one. My gut is telling me that you're not going to be happy towing much of anything with a lowered truck (from my experience in the past). I've towed with both a lifted and lowered truck and I've learned that my tow rig needs to stay as close to stock as possible to be a comfortable and safe tow.

The second most important number is the rear axle rating... About half of that rating is taken up by the weight of the truck, so if your RAWR is 3,900 lbs... you really only have about 1,950 lbs of payload (even if you exceed the payload rating) before the axle is over it's capacity.

 

[1SLwLS1]

Where is the sticker for the GCWR? The rest of my info is obtained from my stickers on the door (Axles, GVWR, payload). The setup has changed which I why I am referencing other data as well for the GCWR since my truck came with the 65RFE but now has the 8HP70. You referenced the Ram body builder which is why I linked what I used.

My next experience should already be more positive as I am happy with the way it already performed considering I was at max capacity, as I thought I had some cushion when I didn’t, hence the purpose of this thread.

The payload wasn’t exceeded and with the WDH, I am not worried that I will exceed rear axle capacity as I don’t have plans to overload it with payload or any other load capacity. When I had the empty trailer on the scale with the WDH, the steering axle was within 50# of the truck unloaded, with WDH settings for a trailer that was calculated lighter. When I re-ran the numbers with the correct trailer weight, I would’ve needed to add another 50# of distributed tongue weight which would’ve pushed that front steering axle weight much closer to unloaded.

 

[jmc921]

There is no info on GCWR on the sticker that I’m aware of.

 

[Hardracer]

Steering and sway were both honestly fine, it was just really bouncy, naturally, with such limited "travel" and as I said earlier, I don't plan on regularly hauling (or at all) all of this together anyhow. I bought a Kubota and knock on wood, hopefully their reputation holds true.

From the threads and websites I have read, most people stated that towing with this lowering setup wasn't as comfortable but should not be limited, I am looking for anyone else that has hauled max capacity with a similar setup and to see if my experience aligns with theirs and if they did anything to improve their experience.

On a side note...Kubota is fine tractor..should last for years.