Big white collar layoffs at Stellantis

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Sherman Bird

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The *average* car on American roads is 12.5 years old and that number climbs a bit higher each year.

The *average* EV battery only lasts 10 years. So there's.a 2.5 year gap between the life expectancy of an EV and the average age of a car on the road today.

Try and spin it however you want, that math just doesn't add up.

I see Toyota is making the new Camry hybrid only. Let's see how that works out for them. Will it cannabilize Prius sales or have they shot themselves in the foot by eliminating the simpler and easier to maintain gas only model?
I wonder if that average is woefully low. It's akin to the wide disparage in life expectancy now as opposed to 1900. In 1900, MANY more babies died at birth or VERY soon afterwards. Those deaths represented zero in age, thus watering down the overall average lifespan of about 49 years. Where do the demographics stem from in overall car ages? My own cars are 22 years, 17 years, and 20 years. That makes my average very close to 20 years.
 

skates15

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I wonder if that average is woefully low. It's akin to the wide disparage in life expectancy now as opposed to 1900. In 1900, MANY more babies died at birth or VERY soon afterwards. Those deaths represented zero in age, thus watering down the overall average lifespan of about 49 years. Where do the demographics stem from in overall car ages? My own cars are 22 years, 17 years, and 20 years. That makes my average very close to 20 years.
I agree and I'd think the auto refinance bankers would too.
 

Sherman Bird

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I agree and I'd think the auto refinance bankers would too.
...And THAT reinforces my assertion that cars and trucks are intrinsically way more valuable than the financiers, Madison Avenue, et. al. lead us to believe a net zero value.
Such durable machines as cars are should last 20 years and WAY beyond. None of my older cars have escaped major and expensive repairs. Funny thing. At today's rate to replace these 3 cars, I'd be out about 120-130,000 dollars, conservatively.

I just recently replaced the engine in my wife's 2007 Kia Sorento EX. It was time consuming and expensive. Being patient, I found a salvage engine certified by the salvage business. They provided me with a mileage affidavit, photos of the wrecked vehicle and I did a Carfax report at my expense and was able to see the progression of miles and that it had been well and properly maintained.

I installed factory new heater hoses (NOT a budget item!). an new OE thermostat, all 6 new COP coils (also not budget friendly) new factory exhaust gaskets, and new spark plugs. I had replaced the radiator hoses and serpentine belt (OE) less than a year before, so those got reused, and both new valve cover gaskets.

The used engine out of Midland Texas was $1116.00 all in delivered to my shop door. All the other parts cost about $575.00, including oil, filter, coolant, clamps, etc. Factor in labor, and I was out maybe 4 grand.

This was and is a car I paid $300.00 for in 2019 from a salvage pool. At that time, I put a couple of grand in needed repairs.

My wife has put in excess of 40,000 miles on it since we obtained the car. In summary, We have driven this vehicle 5 years (next week), 40,000 miles, and put maybe 6 grand into it. That comes out to $100 dollars a month for an EX model with leather, steering wheel controls, seat heaters, yada yada yada.

Currently, the Odometer shows 241,000 miles. Have I beaten the system? Oh, Hell yes!
 

Kickboxer

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How about those loan payments, a $60K loan at 6% interest
has a monthly payment of $994.37..............

And some stretch the payments to 7 years, how does upside down
feel, and yes dealers are getting cars back, if you know what that
means.......
 

Sherman Bird

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How about those loan payments, a $60K loan at 6% interest
has a monthly payment of $994.37..............

And some stretch the payments to 7 years, how does upside down
feel, and yes dealers are getting cars back, if you know what that
means.......
I once had a dealer's license so I could get decent deals on late model cars with low mileage for my customers, and to flip a few a year to enhance the Christmas pot. Those auctioneer would get a repo up on the block, and admonish the attendees to buy the car, sell it, repo it, sell it, repo it......
I didn't keep my license for more than a couple of years. That culture/mentality was and is foreign to me. More positive ways to treat people, know what I mean?
 

Sherman Bird

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The vast majority of consumer new vehicle purchases are not because the vehicle being replaced is worn out. It's because the owner is bored with it and/or wants new doodads and/or their needs/wants changed.
Then they bellyache about the expense of fixing the doodads.
 

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Then they bellyache about the expense of fixing the doodads.

Cops and soldiers complain about two things: When things change and when things stay the same.

Men as a whole complain about two things: Can't get what they want and got what they want.

Universal truth: A large chunk of the population are whiners...and that really upsets me. :D
 

Sherman Bird

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I haven't searched for new, leftover inventory in several years. Didn't know there was such in this day and age. I bought my '18 and quit looking. The 86 F-150 sounds like a good option. That 5.0L wasn't a power house, but it got the job done, generally reliably too.
The 4.9L inline, 300 cubic inch 6 cylinder was WAY better and more torque than the 302 In the Ford trucks. Those engines routinely saw well over 300,000 miles with no major problems. Too bad current model vehicles that DO last that long are unicorns!
 

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The vast majority of consumer new vehicle purchases are not because the vehicle being replaced is worn out. It's because the owner is bored with it and/or wants new doodads and/or their needs/wants changed.
Preach it!! Boredom is my downfall.
 

DeckArtist

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I don't think Stellantis did that. I'd guess the dealership owner did that house cleaning.
Not from what I heard from a buddy who works there. Platinum is the conglomerate that owns my local dealership, while it could have been them, no one at the dealership thinks they did it on their own as the same thing has happened at other dealerships [different owners] and it was all at the same time.
 
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jejb

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Didn't happen at any of my local Ram dealers. But maybe if the dealers are crappy, Stellantis can put pressure on them? I know they tell me whenever I get one of their dealer surveys that if I rate them poorly, corporate notices.
 

Sherman Bird

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Didn't happen at any of my local Ram dealers. But maybe if the dealers are crappy, Stellantis can put pressure on them? I know they tell me whenever I get one of their dealer surveys that if I rate them poorly, corporate notices.
Yeah, CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index) has been a golden standard of reputation in Dealers. Back in the day, (pre-social media), I was at a upscale Pontiac/GMC dealer. This was in the infancy of CSI. The protocol hinged on mailing post cards out to customer and having them check off a number of things as good, so-so, or bad. There was a spot for commentary as well.

One of the owners was the "front" man of the 2 partners who owned this dealership. He was the public front man, as well as he rubbed elbows with us pee-ons in the trenches. He would come visit us in the service department and shake hands, ask how things were, you know, play the facade of give-a-crap. It made the techs, service writers and most of everyone out in the department "feel good".

That so-called good will got more out of a majority of us service people. One day, I was looking at a large bulletin board that had just been installed solely for the purpose of displaying these CSI postcards that had been filled out and returned. I'd say that the split between the grousers and the praises on these cars was about 60% good and 40% negative. I surmised that it was designed to "inspire us to do better".

This front man owner walks up and asks me what I thought of this new addition to the service department; referring to the bulletin board with these CSI responses.

I responded by saying that I found it rather odd that a company would purposely invite vitriol, and then displaying it. He acted astounded. I further commented that my desire to do MY best had been and never was/is influenced by negative connotations or innuendo; that in fact, I was and still am at the top of my game because I WANT to be so for my own edification, not to thwart negativity or impress anybody else.

I remember playing in team sports as a kid growing up. Those poor, misinformed or otherwise misled Coaches made one HORRIBLE mistake when they tried to prod me to do my best. They would point out some other kid who was faster, better, or otherwise superior to me in physical prowess and say "Look at Jimmy! He can run the 440 in X seconds, why can't you?".

The point that was lost on those coaches was, that putting a negative spin on me by directly implying the other kids' superiority didn't phase my desire to do better one iota, because I WASN'T that kid. Psychologically, It never addressed my potential, but pointed out my faults.

Never in my life have I excelled because someone else did. The fire of excellence came from living well within myself and realizing that the true sweetness of internal success was and still is from holding myself to my own high standards, not some weird perception that I should strive to someone else's ideology.

I march to the beat of a different drummer, so I've been informed MANY times in my life. BS, is my thought. Different from who? What? How?

So, to the point: When shop owners and dealer principals stop regarding technicians as "dogs" or "trailer trash", and reward us as professionals and people with the desire to do well for ourselves and our families, They would likely see the culture turn around and a much better result in the service bays.

Asking people to rank a service is a valuable marketing tool. Using the negative remarks is also a potential path to improvement. But rubbing it in our faces and punishing us techs financially, given all the other financial challenges we techs face, is a non sequitur. As a group, we are better rewarded on OUR merits and good achievements, not based upon a gripe.

Never adhere to the montage of "That'll do" when excellence is SO much more satisfying!
 

skates15

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Dealership clears house because they can't clear their lots. Once done they may be able to Re-finance better payments on that inventory with the commercial banks as part of their restructuring.

If the fed doesn't lower rates in Sep and again after that, then dealerships will have to lower their MSRP dramatically, along with the manufacturer.

The manufacturer could also furlough the lines in hopes of reducing dealership inventory and maintaining current prices, but I don't know what the unions would say to that with their updated contracts.

Inflation remains strong, but the fed will cut rates as they always do during election year. Their target I think is to keep rates at 3.5%, which in my opinion is where they need to remain so as not to get into this mess in the future.

If interest is held at 3.5%, will the manufacturers finally reduce costs?
 

Kickboxer

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Dealership clears house because they can't clear their lots. Once done they may be able to Re-finance better payments on that inventory with the commercial banks as part of their restructuring.

If the fed doesn't lower rates in Sep and again after that, then dealerships will have to lower their MSRP dramatically, along with the manufacturer.

The manufacturer could also furlough the lines in hopes of reducing dealership inventory and maintaining current prices, but I don't know what the unions would say to that with their updated contracts.

Inflation remains strong, but the fed will cut rates as they always do during election year. Their target I think is to keep rates at 3.5%, which in my opinion is where they need to remain so as not to get into this mess in the future.

If interest is held at 3.5%, will the manufacturers finally reduce costs?

Don't hold your breath on interest rates going down much if at all.
A .5% Fed cut may be in September, maybe not.
Our federal debt is so high, interest rates will be higher and back
to normal times.
There is no interest rate target by the Fed, only a dumb wish of 2%
inflation, which won't happen.
We may be at the start of a recession.
I am an economist and a realist.

Unions have won such high labor contracts, companies are moving
to Mexico. Witness, Deere, Bobcat and others. A high labor contract
means nothing if the jobs leave town.
This is soon hitting all of the car companies. Just watch.
 

KalboKalbs

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Don't hold your breath on interest rates going down much if at all.
A .5% Fed cut may be in September, maybe not.
Our federal debt is so high, interest rates will be higher and back
to normal times.
There is no interest rate target by the Fed, only a dumb wish of 2%
inflation, which won't happen.
We may be at the start of a recession.
I am an economist and a realist.

Unions have won such high labor contracts, companies are moving
to Mexico. Witness, Deere, Bobcat and others. A high labor contract
means nothing if the jobs leave town.
This is soon hitting all of the car companies. Just watch.
Agree. At best one interest rate cut. Politics more than anything else.

IMO, we've been in a recessions. Feds jigger the books, to give the illusion we are not in a recession.

We can agree or not. Simply posting in reply to your post and my belief. Not interested in irritating management.

Moving on.
 
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