Cummins Killer Bolt.

[CrazyHarleyGuy]

Those of you questioning why the engine and turbo was replaced, the question was answered in the post... the truck was under warranty and the entire assembly was most likely shipped back to Cummins turbo and all (usually requisite of warranty replacement). In the big picture it cheaper to replace the whole assembly. Pulling the cab makes it easier.

Yes truck was under warranty so you are most likely correct that all was removed and shipped back as an entire unit but I do not know this for sure.
I do not know if the owner knows but I will be sure to ask next time I see him.

Also to let you know, his Engine warranty was started fresh as if he just purchased the Truck new.

 

[CrazyHarleyGuy]

Here's an illustration to help with the questions above.
View attachment 541929

And yes.....from what I understand something made it past the exhaust Valves and went directly into the Turbo on the Exhaust side (which drives the Turbo) and damaged the Vanes and rendering it to need replacing as well.

I don't think most here know that the Turbo is mounted directly to the Exhaust Manifiold.

You can see in this cutaway the orange area is the Exhaust gas track.

 

[Gr8bawana]

I believe your idea of how the exhaust gases are routed is incorrect. The Exhaust gasses do not go around and go back through the Air Filter.
The Exhaust Gases drive the Turbo and without them the Turbo would do nothing. EGR redirects some of the gases back into the intake system but not through the Air Filter.
Attached is a simple picture of the concept for you.

I suggest before telling someone they are full of it you understand how the system perhaps works.

We don't read russian

 

[Gr8bawana]

And yes.....from what I understand something made it past the exhaust Valves and went directly into the Turbo on the Exhaust side (which drives the Turbo) and damaged the Vanes and rendering it to need replacing as well.

I don't think most here know that the Turbo is mounted directly to the Exhaust Manifiold.

You can see in this cutaway the orange area is the Exhaust gas track.

Do you even know what side of the engine the grid heater is located on?

 

[Gr8bawana]

I believe your idea of how the exhaust gases are routed is incorrect. The Exhaust gasses do not go around and go back through the Air Filter.
The Exhaust Gases drive the Turbo and without them the Turbo would do nothing. EGR redirects some of the gases back into the intake system but not through the Air Filter.
Attached is a simple picture of the concept for you.

I suggest before telling someone they are full of it you understand how the system perhaps works.

 

[CrazyHarleyGuy]

We don't read russian

Your opinion. It was a quick and easy diagram and in reality no language at all is required.

 

[CrazyHarleyGuy]

Do you even know what side of the engine the grid heater is located on?

Sure do Einstein! Intake side. Grid Heater fails and broken parts go through intake track and into the engine through the Intake Valve.
Once the piston and Cylinder are done with it, it is going to try and rid all that it can that is not embedded into the Piston through the Exhaust Valve and into the Exhaust Manifold and directly into the Turbo on the Exhaust side.

What is it that you do not understand?

 

[CrazyHarleyGuy]

View attachment 542009

You may want to send this meme to yourself!

 

[CrazyHarleyGuy]

Do you even know what side of the engine the grid heater is located on?

And also......you may want to watch this video so you can see where things are located on the Engine. Note Turbo mounted directly to Exhaust manifold and Heater Grid on the Intake side of the Cylinder Head under the Intake manifold.

DEMOLISHED 6.7 Ram Cummins Diesel Engine Teardown! Violent End To A Pricey Engine! Worst Diesel Yet?

Email ALL part requests to [email protected]. Last weeks Big Block Chevy teardown was one of the worst blown up engines on the channel. It was also...

www.youtube.com

 

[KKBB]

And also......you may want to watch this video so you can see where things are located on the Engine. Note Turbo mounted directly to Exhaust manifold and Heater Grid on the Intake side of the Cylinder Head under the Intake manifold.

DEMOLISHED 6.7 Ram Cummins Diesel Engine Teardown! Violent End To A Pricey Engine! Worst Diesel Yet?

Email ALL part requests to [email protected]. Last weeks Big Block Chevy teardown was one of the worst blown up engines on the channel. It was also...

www.youtube.com

Kinda crazy to me that there are people here that understand it breaks off and goes through the intake valves and into the piston, but just can't fathom that there is any possible way it, or part of it can make it through the exhaust valve side...which then goes to the turbo!!! Oh well...everyone has their own opinions.

 

[nlambert182]

Attached is a picture of a Cummins Piston that has supposedly seenthe failure.
Notice the small pieces embedded into the Piston? So let's just say that perhaps some of the pieces did not get embedded and travelled on out the exhaust Valve?
Possible.....I'd sure say so! Is there something that would catch or stop them before they hit the Turbo, I do not now but if not then your Turbo is done as soon as these little bits get to it.

Possible... sure. But extremely unlikely. When fragments make it into a cylinder, the force of that piston slamming those shards into the head will essentially turn them into a part of the piston. Ever tried to dig a shard out of a piston? I have. Easier to break the piston away from it than dislodge it.

I'd much more buy that Cummins may have decided just to swap the engine and turbo as a unit.

 

[crash68]

That is not physically possible. Did the bolt come out the exhaust and find its's way back into the air intake, past the air filter and through the turbo?

Do you even know what side of the engine the grid heater is located on?

Your the one that is mistaken thinking something had to go through the intake side of the turbo to break it.
You might want think before you post on an assumption.

 

[CrazyHarleyGuy]

Possible... sure. But extremely unlikely. When fragments make it into a cylinder, the force of that piston slamming those shards into the head will essentially turn them into a part of the piston. Ever tried to dig a shard out of a piston? I have. Easier to break the piston away from it than dislodge it.

I'd much more buy that Cummins may have decided just to swap the engine and turbo as a unit.

I would still say likely and possible. I built Engines for a living for 7 years of my life and had seen plenty of WTF's over those years.
I quit building Engines for a living a long time ago but the industry has always remained my passion and hobby to this day.
From Alcohol Injected Sprint Car Motors to Harley V-Twins to grannies VW Motor, I had done a lot in those 7 years.

Look at all the areas circled Red in the picture below. Grid Heater bolt and shards of whatever made it into the Cylinder. You can see at least 6 indentations from the Bolt alone and not all the Piston is showing. We see at least two shards of something but nothing resembling the Bolt.
Valve lift for the Exhaust Valve is .4186 so any pieces smaller than this can find it's way out the exhaust and into the Turbo.
In this Picture we see some shards embedded but who's to say in the Engine that I had mentioned that those shards did not embed and instead made it to the Turbo.

The area starting with the green circle and working towards the yellow and again towards the center is quite Deep and could hold the bolt in that area and see little damage. Some damage has occurred in the deep area as seen by the marks that are circled red but it is nothing compared to the rest of the Piston which has a much tighter piston to head clearance.

In all, no one has to take my word for it, I am again only passing along what I was told and I was only trying to be informative and helpful.

 

[sblack33741]

The heater bolt is even less common than hemi tick. For a recall to occur a manufacturer has to see failures vs sales at a certain percent. I believe at one point I read something that said CA required 4% or 25 failures before a recall is warranted. If that holds true you can double or triple that number for other states. Typically a manufacturer does it before they're directed to.

I've read of 5-6 instances of this happening online. Cummins hit the 3M engines sold mark back in 2019. If the 6.7 is 1M of those, They would need over 40k failures to spark a recall by CA standards. It's just not prevalent. Regardless, it IS something to watch for because there's always that one time.

To be honest, you'll likely have a better chance of getting scammed by Gale Banks than the bolt falling out.

Will CA even allow a Cummins to be turned over anymore? We may breathe a minute particle and need to cough.

 

[nlambert182]

Yep, they will. But you'll suffer a premium to do it.

All in all, the main point is that way too many people believe that the GHB is a widespread issue and it's not. You're way more likely to see a two headed turtle in your lifetime than experience this bolt failure. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but the chances are really slim. People like Gale Banks make their living off fear mongering and threads like this are cash cows for him. It's not a killer bolt, and due dilligence will prevent it from happening. Do a wiggle test ever so often. If it wiggles, delete the heater. If it doesn't, carry on. For 9.8 out of 10 trucks, you'll never see an issue with it.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Yep, they will. But you'll suffer a premium to do it.

All in all, the main point is that way too many people believe that the GHB is a widespread issue and it's not. You're way more likely to see a two headed turtle in your lifetime than experience this bolt failure. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but the chances are really slim. People like Gale Banks make their living off fear mongering and threads like this are cash cows for him. It's not a killer bolt, and due dilligence will prevent it from happening. Do a wiggle test ever so often. If it wiggles, delete the heater. If it doesn't, carry on. For 9.8 out of 10 trucks, you'll never see an issue with it.

But if people see it on the internet it just has to be true!

 

[KKBB]

Yep, they will. But you'll suffer a premium to do it.

All in all, the main point is that way too many people believe that the GHB is a widespread issue and it's not. You're way more likely to see a two headed turtle in your lifetime than experience this bolt failure. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but the chances are really slim. People like Gale Banks make their living off fear mongering and threads like this are cash cows for him. It's not a killer bolt, and due dilligence will prevent it from happening. Do a wiggle test ever so often. If it wiggles, delete the heater. If it doesn't, carry on. For 9.8 out of 10 trucks, you'll never see an issue with it.

So, you are saying 2% will see the issue. Out of all the Cummins engines ram has sold, that is quite a lot!! It might seem few and far between, but if it happens to your truck...that is a really bad deal!!

 

[nlambert182]

I've said it before, but there are millions of 6.7 Cummins engines on the road. For it to be considered an issue worthy of a recall, there has to be a certain percentage of vehicles with the failure. It hasn't neared that threshold. So no... it's no more of an issue than any other random event.

I do agree. If it happens to you, it is a huge deal so people need to know to keep an eye on it. On the rare chance that it might, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[Gr8bawana]