Gasoline - Top Tier for 2024

[Burla]

Analogy MoDTC concentration in motor vs. % engine wear reduction.
Big knee in the wear curve where more.than 250 ppm MoDTC doesn't reduce wear more.

There is also some limit where chucking ever more detergent additive into gasoline doesnt reduce deposits much further. Why wouldn't Top Tier developed minimum concentration be that limit?

yes, but doesnt reduce wear in their tests, would be my only concern. Are their tests stringent enough to mimmick the pressures of hemi tick? Not so sure about that one. Would moly plate survive with <200ppmmoly in hemi tick engine?

 

[HEMIMANN]

yes, but doesnt reduce wear in their tests, would be my only concern. Are their tests stringent enough to mimmick the pressures of hemi tick? Not so sure about that one. Would moly plate survive with <200ppmmoly in hemi tick engine?

That was just an analogy for how much PEA additive in gasoline is good enough.

 

[HEMIMANN]

While you have a good point, Do you trust those setting these guidelines with your best interests? If you do then anything top tier is more than sufficient, if you dont or require peace of mind, then dont settle for good enough.

Without test data we don't know. There is test data for Top Tier minimum concentration. The test was sponsored by AAA. That amount appears sufficient to my trained eye.
Google it.

 

[06 Dodge]

BP advertises Invigorate as proprietary and better than Top Tier, yet wont pay for Top Tier Cert anymore
wtf knows why.

Most likely because it cost to much $$$$$$ to get & keep that Cert to claim Top Tier

 

[HEMIMANN]

Most likely because it cost to much $$$$$$ to get & keep that Cert to claim Top Tier

However - we don't know if, or what quality controls there are for either Top Tier Certified nor Top Tier Claimed gasoline brands. There's at least a chance they're better than non Top Tier stations.

Beyond "trust us".

It's somewhat better than the diesel fuel biz which doesn't even post anything. No cetane, lubricity, nothing. Probably doesn't matter as much anymore with modern high pressure electronic engines, but it sure as hell used to.

 

[rvance]

I guess I'm down to always spiking with PEA unless I happen to rarely be around a Shell, Arco, or Cenex. I don't even look at the price anymore, need to keep this truck in good shape. Can't afford and don't like new offerings.

Related topic - I'm thinking of changing from 89 to 91 octane gas. Default spark timing set for 89 octane, but there is such pure base stock. It's blended 87 and 91.

I know my engine runs better on 89 than 87, but would it run better on 91? Engine knock ret*tards on 87, but not on pure 89 or 91. How does the combustion go with 89? Part knocking part not?

I notice a big improvement in the way my 3.6 runs on 89 vs 87. With the prices down it makes sense. Here in NE Texas, we have the choices. Our town of 1700 has 2x Shell, 1 ExxonMobil, and a Phillips 66. The 89 is $2.54 at the Philips station.

 

[rvance]

Interesting I dont see a shell fuel additive like we see with techron and si-1. If I was ceo for a day that would be the first thing I'd change, they have to be leaving money on the table with that one. No shell nitro in a jug? I mean common they have a great name already TM'd.

Shell V- Power® NiTRO+ has six times the cleaning agents required to meet federal standards and removes baked-in deposits left by lower- quality premium gasoline, starting with the very first tank. With continual use of Shell V-Power® NiTRO+, will help prevent future build up of carbon deposits.

Yeah, but that's the most expensive gasoline you can get. Do we need 6x additives?

 

[HEMIMANN]

I notice a big improvement in the way my 3.6 runs on 89 vs 87. With the prices down it makes sense. Here in NE Texas, we have the choices. Our town of 1700 has 2x Shell, 1 ExxonMobil, and a Phillips 66. The 89 is $2.54 at the Philips station.

Oh, yes of course. I am wondering if you can tell the difference between 89 and 91 in drivability or mileage, only because the 89 isn't a pure 89 - it's a blend of 87 and 91 to average 89. But it really is NOT 89 - it's actual gasoline is 87 & 91.

87 will knock and cause timing pull back. 91 won't knock, of course, but won't burn as cleanly, because ignition timing doesn't advance extra to burn 91.

What we need is a pure 89, and it doesn't exist. Is blended 89 the worst of both worlds - does the 87 gas cause knock and the 91 leave deposits? Would it be better to use 91 and have no knock but leave some deposits due to incomplete combustion?

 

[farout75]

MY 17 RAM 15000 5.7 has nearly 148,000 miles. I have used Top Tier gas exclusively. I have recorded ever gallon, price and MPG from buying it new. At 100K the spark plugs were clean and ware was minor. The throttle body was clean. So clear the Tec was surprised. I have never used any additive and it runs good. I am a firn believer Top Tier does make a difference. I use mostly Shell, Citgo and Philips 66. In 6 degree weather I get 16 MPG right now.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I read over @ Booob's that PIB PolyIsoButylene gasoline detergent additive isn't as effective as PEA PolyEtherAmine, because it doesn't have nitrogen to stabilize the detergent molecule in hot environments, so it's especially less effective in direct injection gasoline engines (keeping the injector nozzle clean).

Of course, in a GDI engine, the intake valve isn't cleaned from PCV oil mist anymore because fuel isn't sprayed on it, so it requires a detergent fog cleaning every so often. If these stupid companies would make GDI engines correctly with dual injectors, this extra step would be necessary. I believe Toyota is.

PIB is old, Chevron invented PEA 10 years after. Chevron no longer advertises PEA nor lists it as an SDS ingredient. My concern is they got some bean counter CEO's the cheaped out and went to PIB at the exact time PEA is most needed because of proliferation of GDI engines.

Anyway, my Red Line PEA arrived and I've started dosing. Who knows how long I've run non Top Tier gas for? I occasionally stop at Shell, but had been mostly going to Holiday (Circle K). Cheap ba$tards.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I've been getting Top Tier gas from a local gas n go mini mart called Rutters, 3 miles from home. It's also the closest gas to home. They have the sticker and all stations are listed on the Top Tier website, but I don't know what it is or where it comes from.

The closest Shell is 22 miles one way.

I also have 2 Sunoco stations and an Exxon about 6 miles away.
I've read that Sunoco dropped the sticker and claims they've always been a Top Tier gas.
I'm going to let my tank get closer to empty and head to the Exxon next. I can get Exxon's 93 for about 0.20 more than Rutter's 89. Exxon is farther from the Interstate, probably why the price is just a little better.

 

[Wild one]

Oh, yes of course. I am wondering if you can tell the difference between 89 and 91 in drivability or mileage, only because the 89 isn't a pure 89 - it's a blend of 87 and 91 to average 89. But it really is NOT 89 - it's actual gasoline is 87 & 91.

87 will knock and cause timing pull back. 91 won't knock, of course, but won't burn as cleanly, because ignition timing doesn't advance extra to burn 91.

What we need is a pure 89, and it doesn't exist. Is blended 89 the worst of both worlds - does the 87 gas cause knock and the 91 leave deposits? Would it be better to use 91 and have no knock but leave some deposits due to incomplete combustion?

You're 6.4 might not be as gas sensitive as the 1500's 5.7, the HD 6.4's are lower compression torque engines,designed to run at full load for 12 minutes on 87 octane,supposedly at sea level

 

[Wild one]

I've been getting Top Tier gas from a local gas n go mini mart called Rutters, 3 miles from home. It's also the closest gas to home. They have the sticker and all stations are listed on the Top Tier website, but I don't know what it is or where it comes from.

The closest Shell is 22 miles one way.

I also have 2 Sunoco stations and an Exxon about 6 miles away.
I've read that Sunoco dropped the sticker and claims they've always been a Top Tier gas.
I'm going to let my tank get closer to empty and head to the Exxon next. I can get Exxon's 93 for about 0.20 more than Rutter's 89. Exxon is farther from the Interstate, probably why the price is just a little better.

But is it a high use station,smaller out of the way stations usually have the fuel sit in the tanks longer,and it degrades fairly rapidly when stored in under ground tanks,especially if they're older tanks

 

[Curmudgeon]

But is it a high use station,smaller out of the way stations usually have the fuel sit in the tanks longer,and it degrades fairly rapidly when stored in under ground tanks,especially if they're older tanks

The Rutter's and one of the 2 Sunocos are about 50 yards from the Interstate and both are very busy, often waiting for a pump.

The other Sunoco and Exxon are about 2 miles and 3 miles respectively, but on the same busy city street.

All are also "mini-marts" in their own right. The Rutter's might be the busiest. The Sunoco close to the Interstate closed during the height of Covid. Not a good sign, even though they are in a very good location.

 

[HEMIMANN]

You're 6.4 might not be as gas sensitive as the 1500's 5.7, the HD 6.4's are lower compression torque engines,designed to run at full load for 12 minutes on 87 octane,supposedly at sea level

Yeah, I suppose the member posting datalog was running a 5.7.
I guess it just irks me they market an 89 gas that isn't 89.

 

[HEMIMANN]

@Wild one
I do know my 6.4 runs crappy on 87. I can't say if it's only for 12 minutes.
So the ??% 91 octane gas in the 89 blend does make a difference.

So for sure I run 89. It didn't take too long to feel this difference. Just haven't done it with 91 and don't drive as much now either.
Which is why I'm asking others.

 

[Wild one]

@Wild one
I do know my 6.4 runs crappy on 87. I can't say if it's only for 12 minutes.
So the ??% 91 octane gas in the 89 blend does make a difference.

So for sure I run 89. It didn't take too long to feel this difference. Just haven't done it with 91 and don't drive as much now either.
Which is why I'm asking others.

It's definitely worth trying 91 in it .It might not show much improvement,but until you try it,it's an unknown entity.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I'll be trying whatever Exxon offers above 89, just to check it out.

I've already seen the price on their 93 and it doesn't scare me off. Doing about 6,000 miles/year a difference of roughly 0.40/gallon isn't going to make or break my budget, I just want to do the best I can for my vehicle.
FCA says 89 for the Ram.
Mitsubishi says 93 for my wife's Eclipse.
She drives even less than I do. Hell I take her car out from time to time just to charge the battery and pump some oil through the trans and engine.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'll be trying whatever Exxon offers above 89, just to check it out.

I've already seen the price on their 93 and it doesn't scare me off. Doing about 6,000 miles/year a difference of roughly 0.40/gallon isn't going to make or break my budget, I just want to do the best I can for my vehicle.
FCA says 89 for the Ram.
Mitsubishi says 93 for my wife's Eclipse.
She drives even less than I do. Hell I take her car out from time to time just to charge the battery and pump some oil through the trans and engine.

Well, wifey's is a turbo whi*zzinator 4 banger, so 91 keeps the spark map advanced.
Besides, those things use so little gas it doesnt break bank.
Filled up hers with Shell TT 91 for $21. For a week of driving.
That's not even beer money.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, yes of course. I am wondering if you can tell the difference between 89 and 91 in drivability or mileage, only because the 89 isn't a pure 89 - it's a blend of 87 and 91 to average 89. But it really is NOT 89 - it's actual gasoline is 87 & 91.

87 will knock and cause timing pull back. 91 won't knock, of course, but won't burn as cleanly, because ignition timing doesn't advance extra to burn 91.

What we need is a pure 89, and it doesn't exist. Is blended 89 the worst of both worlds - does the 87 gas cause knock and the 91 leave deposits? Would it be better to use 91 and have no knock but leave some deposits due to incomplete combustion?

"What we need is a pure 89, and it doesn't exist. Is blended 89 the worst of both worlds - does the 87 gas cause knock and the 91 leave deposits? "

OMG!