is changing oil in manual transmission a bad thing?

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haze10

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998.5 with 5.9L 24V 5sd manual transmission. Got 150K miles on the truck, all OEM. Thought it might be a good idea to change the tranny gear oil and the differential oil. The shop I took it to said not to do it. That changing the transmission oil can lead to failure. Talked with a buddy of mine who has a Ford but with similar build, he said he changed the oil in his standard and it failed shortly thereafter.

I don't get this. It would seem to me that draining the oil, which probably contains metal particles, and putting in clean oil would only be beneficial. How is it possible that it could lead to failure. This is NOT an automatic, its a standard gear box. There should be no mystery to its maintenance.

Any idea why both these folks are saying it is a bad idea and can lead to trouble?
 

StateOfMind

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Had an automatic crap out after 1/4 million miles of abuse, changed fluid, and got maybe another 5k before it was gone. Nasty burned metal filled fluid was the only thing keeping it together. I can't imagine this to be true with a manual though.

Edit: this was a beater jeep liberty. I would never treat my truck like that
 

mikeru

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I've heard that about auto transmissions but not manuals. I've owned many cars with manual transmissions and regularly changed the oil in all of them.
 

BenchTest

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I've changed trans fluid on quite a few manuals in my years, no issues. As long as you are putting in the CORRECT spec fluid, new fluid isn't going to cause a transmission failure on a manual. The key being CORRECT fluid. I can see putting the wrong fluid in causing failure. Some use a variant of ATF and some use a variant of gear oil. Follow manufacturer's spec and you'll be fine.
 

turkeybird56

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With 90 or 140 weight a magnet is your best bet
I haven't muddled around with a manual tranny, since we pulled the 3 speed on the tree out of my 396 and put in a synched 4 speed Saginaw, floor shifter in it's place. That be like 1973 ish, lmao.
 

62Blazer

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That's an old farmer's tale. It comes from people waiting until the transmission begins having issues, so they scramble to change the fluid hoping it will somehow fix it. Then a week later the transmission completely dies. Of course they blame that on the fluid change and not the fact the transmission was already having issues.
 

Dan Topp

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One of the few things I’ve learned from my mechanic father and my vette mechanic is how changing your oil properly definitely separates you from the herd that goes along with manufacturers recommendations rather then what will prolong the life of your vehicle.I don’t do exactly what my vette engine builder says unless it’s one he built . I’m on the second(1k)for my caddy and according to his schedule it would be the third.Because of the lift being level I have to Jack it up to drain image.jpg
 

turkeybird56

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Cannot just use ramps on ground? I know major PITA especially if u got a lift. I have my Honda Trike that I change level on wheels on ground. No way to get that 3 wheeler up. Major PITA.
 

Sherman Bird

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998.5 with 5.9L 24V 5sd manual transmission. Got 150K miles on the truck, all OEM. Thought it might be a good idea to change the tranny gear oil and the differential oil. The shop I took it to said not to do it. That changing the transmission oil can lead to failure. Talked with a buddy of mine who has a Ford but with similar build, he said he changed the oil in his standard and it failed shortly thereafter.

I don't get this. It would seem to me that draining the oil, which probably contains metal particles, and putting in clean oil would only be beneficial. How is it possible that it could lead to failure. This is NOT an automatic, its a standard gear box. There should be no mystery to its maintenance.

Any idea why both these folks are saying it is a bad idea and can lead to trouble?
Changing the oil in ANYTHING will not cause failure. THAT is an old URBAN B.S. legend, wrought of drunkards swapping horror stories at the pub. The source is like playing telephone or a fishing story. The more it gets passed along, and people believe it, the worse and worse it gets. Well, except the fishing story. In that one, the fish suddenly has a growth spurt! ;)

Go ahead and change the oil. It's good maintenance practice. Use the correct oil, not what some self-appointed guru tells you to.

The world is full of experts. All you have to do to see them is watch the news about a tragedy or natural disaster.
 

indept

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Changing the oil in ANYTHING will not cause failure. THAT is an old URBAN B.S. legend, wrought of drunkards swapping horror stories at the pub. The source is like playing telephone or a fishing story. The more it gets passed along, and people believe it, the worse and worse it gets. Well, except the fishing story. In that one, the fish suddenly has a growth spurt! ;)



Or as 62Blazer wrote in post 12:
That's an old farmer's tale. It comes from people waiting until the transmission begins having issues, so they scramble to change the fluid hoping it will somehow fix it. Then a week later the transmission completely dies. Of course they blame that on the fluid change and not the fact the transmission was already having issues.
 

Sherman Bird

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Or as 62Blazer wrote in post 12:
That's an old farmer's tale. It comes from people waiting until the transmission begins having issues, so they scramble to change the fluid hoping it will somehow fix it. Then a week later the transmission completely dies. Of course they blame that on the fluid change and not the fact the transmission was already having issues.
Blame housefires on fire trucks. After all, there is a fire truck at every housefire, right? ;)
 

Jeepwalker

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I would definitely change it. Get all the suspended metal particles out of the tranny. Use the Mfgr's recommended fluid back into it. You might even use the recommended Mopar fluid. If it shifts "differently" ...like not acceptable, remove it and try another mfgr's fluid.

Here's why (long explanatin - read carefully): Different mfgr's fluids can contain slightly different additive packages or base oils which *could* have slightly different coefficients of friction. And that subtle difference can affect how the synchronizers in a manual transmission do their job (subtly). The synchronizers are little coned rings, sometimes brass, or sometimes they contain a friction matierial (like brake shoe lining) which these 'rings' are pushed up against the next gear's metal cone during the shifting process, ....and they act like a "brake" to help slow down (or speed up) the next gear you are shifting into so the speed matches (is Sychronized) to the speed of the gear you are into. Essentially so both gears's speed match, and thus don't "clash" ...because gears won't 'mesh' if they're spinning different speeds.

BUT ....lets say the friction of the new gear oil is slightly different from what you had in before, let's say the new fluid is "slippery-er" than the old, the braking effect (for the next gear) could be slightly "off" from how your sychronizers are engineered to work ...and result would be gear clash or poor-shift 'feel'. You have to understand the contact surface of the sychronizers is actually pretty small, in fact brass sychronizers are 'grooved' and the actual contact area (the raised grooves) is quite small. Thus it only takes a very small difference in fluid friction to effect the job they are supposed to do. That's why changing an oil can affect shifting. So.....that said, start with Mopar oil in the hopes they require special specs to be met and the Mopar fluid will play nice with what you are removing. But also recognize they sometimes also change vendors. Today's gear oil vendor might not be the same as when your truck was new.

7 out of 10 times you'll be good. But I've had it happen. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the tranny, just that the new lube friction and the sychronizer [engineered-in] friction aren't quite 'happy' together and the braking effect isn't Quite how it was designed/engineered. And maybe that's what some people meant when they told you their tranny's crapped out after changing the fluid (manual trans). They just didn't understand what was going on and the effect of the new fluid which didn't play well with the sychros. Maybe $20 of new fluid would have saved them $1500! (I'm sure tranny shops are glad to rebuild one!).

So anyway, if that happens, don't freak out. Drop the fluid and switch to a different mfgr's gear oil should straighten the issue out. You can save the fluid you take out too. Drive a couple days and see if it straightens out. It wouldn't take any longer than 2 days to know. Or you could add a friction modifier. But changing the gear oil from, say, Mopar to Valvoline (or another brand, even a 3rd brand if needed) would be the recommended procedure. And it doesn't take much effort to change manual trans gear oil. Use an inexpensive suction gun to add new fluid.

Now....if the sychro's are worn out..then they are worn out. But at your mileage yours should be good. You can see typical sychronizer 'grooves' below. Your tk may have brass or possibly friction material synchros..I don't remember off hand. But you get the point. Not a lot of contact area..so a little friction difference makes a big difference.
img_0100-jpg.jpg
 
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