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Show me a tank that's buried 16.5 ft in the ground
It's not uncommon for the frost line to be about 8ft deep in western Canada,if there's traffic over an area,it'll go a bit deeper. Soil temps here start to warm up about mid march,with most of the frost gone by mid april at the latest.Farmers are usually planting by May
Show me a tank that's buried 16.5 ft in the ground
I never suggested an underground fuel storage tank would have a temperature swing of any degree. I doubt the fuel in an underground tank would experience any significant temperature change throughout the year. My example was in the context of a vehicle. In my climate, I've left for work with temperatures in the 30s and 40s and drove home with temperatures in the 70s and 80s, not unusual in the spring/fall transition periods.
Not good. I know I will run out of gas before April!
I must be missing something.... if the temp in the storage tank isn't fluctuating, what's the point of the advice to fill up in the morning when it's cool?
There are some inaccuracies in your statements. I'm not trying to start a debate, merely pointing out that some of this info is not correct. "All hoses at the pump have a vapor return" - More often than not, there is no Stage II (point of vehicle fueling) vapor reclaiming taking place. Stage I Vapor Recovery being point of fuel delivery by a tanker. Fuel is metered at the point of dispensing on every single product type (gasoline all grades, diesel all grades). The federal national standard is in effect for these meters and monitored at a state level via calibration checks (either in lottery format or annual requirements). Fuel is metered within "normal operating temperatures" to maintain a percentage accuracy of delivered product to consumer. In locations where it's exceptionally cold, ATC is taking place (automatic temp compensation). Also, if a station is A) built properly, and B) in good operational repair, buying fuel during a delivery is a non-issue. The drop tubes installed in the fuel drop locations are positioned as such as to divert dropped fuel from a tanker, away from the inlet of the STP (submerged turbine pump that moves fuel from the UST (underground storage tank) to prevent "stirring up" the debris that may be present in the tank and sending it into the delivery line to the dispensers. In the event debris does get picked up during a simultaneous product drop-customer buying fuel, there are filters in place on every single dispensed product to prevent that from going into the consumer's vehicle (10 micron on gasoline products, 30 micron on diesel). Again, that's if things are operating at standards/maintained.
I've worked several incidents where diesel was dropped to unleaded and vice-versa. It's quite a mess. Requires quite a bit of recovery effort. I've seen new Volvo tractors flatlined leaving the fuel centers, school buses die, the list goes on. There was even an incident where the product was steered incorrectly at the loading rack and the driver picked up the wrong product, but delivered it to the "right tank" on arrival. He unknowingly dropped gasoline into a diesel tank at a truck stop. 7 dead tractors later.... What a mess.
It's standard routine maintenance for dispenser filters to be replaced either "for cause" (slow flow, phase separation restriction) or by through-put requirements (predetermined X amount of gallons dispensed). All national brands have a filter regimen of date/gallon replacement. Mom and pops typically replace filters "for cause" - that cause being slow flow. It's cost-prohibitive for them to change them based on through-put as a technician hourly charge, travel time, and per-filter cost is high. Managed Maintenance Programs (MMP's) are in place with national brands to combat this high cost. They negotiate a fixed-cost MMP to save hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) across their footprint.
To clarify - a standard dispenser filter will continue to dispense fuel, at a noticeably decreased flow rate, when the filter is "clogged". When the filter media reaches it's maximum holding, it will bypass the media and flow at a significantly slower rate, indicating the need for service. Only a check-ball type filter will completely stop the flow. Those are typically not seen in service any longer as they are expensive and interrupt commerce quite regularly. Those filters utilized a check-ball "glued" to the bottom of the media cavity that reacted to the presence of water. When water became present, the "glue" lost adhesion and sent the ball into the flow path of the filter, blocking the discharge port and stopping the fuel flow. Water alert filters use a corn starch type media that reacts with the presence of water, swelling the pores of the filter media, dramatically reducing fuel flow, indicating the need for service.
Canada has set the "standard" for ATC in fuel dispensers. Most manufacturers Beta test their equipment in Canada for ATC testing/proving. Once they prove accuracy and reliability, that equipment is dispersed globally where ATC is needed.
Thanks for your post. So far in this thread, you've made the most sense. I built, maintained, retrofitted, etc fueling systems, C-Stores, fueling facilities for major national brands, military bases, municipalities, the list goes on. I did the Point of Sale, line/tank install, fuel leak detection/monitoring, automated ordering systems, line/tank testing, environmental compliance, blah, blah, BLAH for a LOT of years. To your point - the Seraphin can
5 gallon "prover can". +/- 3ci on 5 gallons delivered was the corrected standard, +/- 6ci on 5 gallons delivered are the allowable tolerances (federally). Then you can go into aggregate total variances to make this more complicated, but the point is, your post is legit. Thanks.I can't speak for Canada, but in the U.S. most stations are required to be proved yearly. Some states utilize a lottery system and their site goes into a "drawing" and has the potential to be audited once in every two years or three years. States are required to investigate a complaint from a consumer...e.g. "My car only holds 12 gallons and this thing charged me for 14 gallons". In the old days it was a known thing that dealer stations (leased or privately held gas stations) would get their calibration certs in place for each meter, then go crank the wheels down and short-dispense to consumers after the calibration paperwork was filed. They'd cheat the consumer a little bit on each transaction and make a few more bucks. Can't do that now with meters being digitally monitored/calibrated.
They are a heck of a lot easier to inspect for fuel leaks, lol. I've inspected enough sites to know that you can pretty much tell by the customer on the paperwork if it'll be AST or UST when you arrive. The AST's aren't prone to underground water intrusion like the UST's (ground water is a constant issue with UST's), piping is easy to inspect, the monitoring equipment requirements are way less. There are some advantages, but having a BIG tank sitting around has it's hindrances as well.
I wasn't offering any advice, I simply presented an example. The temperature change of the fuel in the truck's fuel tank. It was just an example and not necessarily a real-world example of when one would fill their tank and how much fuel was in the tank before a fill-up.
