Stellantis US Sales Fall 21%, Rolls Out $2,000 Incentive To Stop The Bleeding

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...S&cvid=05d943c01d1d46228c3c3a358c853d42&ei=16

 

[HEMIMANN]

The EPA as an Article 2 agency was never authorized by Congress. NEPA was established as a congressional declaration to consolidate the duties of a number of environmental agencies at the time and direct all federal agencies to follow EPA guidelines. NEPA was not a congressional authorization of EPA as an Article 2 entity.​

What is the National Environmental Policy Act? | US EPA
Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115388 miles.

What does "NEPA was established as a congressional declaration" mean? Who "established" NEPA? If congress "declared" NEPA, isn't that a congressional authorization?

We're getting too far down the rabbit hole for this thread, perhaps. Doesn't have anything to do with Stellantis failing relative to the other auto makers.

 

[Dusty]

What does "NEPA was established as a congressional declaration" mean? Who "established" NEPA? If congress "declared" NEPA, isn't that a congressional authorization?

We're getting too far down the rabbit hole for this thread, perhaps. Doesn't have anything to do with Stellantis failing relative to the other auto makers.

I included the link to the EPA page that describes NEPA. It was mentioned in an earlier message that EPA regulations may be partially responsible for negative impacts on the auto market.

In short, NEPA directed all federal agencies to consider environmental impacts when developing rules and regulations.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115388 miles.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I included the link to the EPA page that describes NEPA. It was mentioned in an earlier message that EPA regulations may be partially responsible for negative impacts on the auto market.

In short, NEPA directed all federal agencies to consider environmental impacts when developing rules and regulations.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115388 miles.

Does not answer my questions.

 

[Docwagon1776]

The EPA as an Article 2 agency was never authorized by Congress. ​

Your first statement was that the EPA was established via EO and not by Congress. My statement was that congress authorized the EPA. Twice, technically. 1970 and 1984 after SCOTUS decisions on a semi-related topic called the legality of the first resolution in to question.

The EPA was not formed whole cloth from nothing, there was no need for Congress to establish it as all the existing components had been previously established. It was a reorganization of existing gov't entities under one new umbrella. That's the Reorganization Plan #3 I mentioned. Prior to the reorganization, the responsibilities the new EPA took on had been carried out under the Dept. of Interior, Dept of Agriculture, etc. As all of these entities already existed under the executive branch, POTUS requested consolidation via the Reorganization plan. Congressional committees approved the moving of the various entities under the new umbrella. Hence, Congress authorized the EPA in 1970.

Congress can, and has, ceded decision making ability and there's nothing unconstitutional about it. Thinking logically, there's no way any given human can understand the complexity of every industry that requires regulation. No one person can have the required knowledge to regulate say, the banking industry, shipbuilding, patent protections, etc. Congress can revoke decision making ability, alter budgets, etc. but rely on others to have indepth knowledge.

SCOTUS recent decision on how unclear language is interpreted may spice things up a bit. It clamps down on the regulatory body's abilities to interpret language in house and moves that to the courts. I don't know what the end result of that will be other than there's going to be a whoooole lot of challenges to various regulations under that new guidance since it upsets decades of precedent. Ultimately, though, Congress retains the ability to pass new law to clarify and always has.

 

[Dusty]

"Your first statement was that the EPA was established via EO and not by Congress. My statement was that congress authorized the EPA. Twice, technically. 1970 and 1984 after SCOTUS decisions on a semi-related topic called the legality of the first resolution in to question."

"Twice technically" is not officially, and that is my point. EPA is an article 2 directive, or EO if you wish. Point me to the Congressional act that established the EPA? The EPA is funded through the Dept. of the Interior by appropriation bills which are for specific purposes only. Funding specific EPA initiatives is not the same thing as authorizing an Article 2 agency. Yes, EPA staff is funded, but not directly.

The unconstitutionality comes in the form of the EPA making rules that have not been approved by Congress. The Loper Bright case is a primary example. There was no Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM), no 60 day open comment period, and no Congressional acceptance or approval in clear violation of the Administrative Procedure Act. This gives unlimited power to unelected bureaucrats.

The EPA rule in Loper Bright was an arbitrary rule requiring private fishing companies to maintain a monitor on each boat and pay them $700 a day. This would have the effect of putting many fishing boat companies out of business. Please note that the Loper Bright plaintiffs sued the Secretary of Commerce, not the EPA because the EPA has no congressional legal standing.

Since this discussion has been noted to be quite a bit outside the thread title, and may be boring to some (unless they agree with your position), I've made my arguments and I stand by them, but I respectfully will not add to the further clutter of this discussion.

Best Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115511 miles.

 

[SSRAM1GT]

Yesterday I watched a TFL video that got into the sales volume of trucks. If their data is accurate, RAM's sales numbers are not pretty.

View attachment 546222

Hi, I'm going to be the person who is going to see good in this. The trucks are still selling.

 

[SSRAM1GT]

When you stop making the products your customers want to buy and raise the prices and lower the value the results are predictable. Glad I got a 19 Laramie Hemi!

Are you onto something? Why are the prices so high?

 

[leftchevybehind]

just thought about something, maybe they should replace the CEO with someone who knows the US market

 

[91rt]

The last CEO who passed seemed to know what the americans wanted and left well enough alone with our vehicles. This current CEO seems to want to self destruct the current brand and let it drown.

 

[clay282]

My 2019 1500 Bighorn is my 2nd Ram, personal, 2 others for company trucks. When I got this 5th gen, it was after I traded my 4th gen for a shiny new Tacoma and regretted it. I wanted a full size again and NONE of them were the bargain a Ram 1500 Bighorn was. You got helluva bang for your buck! Mines a level 2 I think it was called, 4x4, heated seats and wheel, trailer tow pack, power peddles yada yada.

I WANT a new Ram but they are insanely overpriced now. To get my truck, it's 20-ish grand, for the same thing. Stack on top of that, resale is in the dumpster, so I would basically be losing the equivelant of a brand new Kia Forte. Then, you have interest rates that make sure you lose anything you gained on incentives is lost in interest. I would be an idiot to purchase a new Ram.

Then I look around at F150's, Silverado's, Sierra's, Titan's, Tundra's and suddenly the Ram isn't the value it was just a few years back. With my 5th gen and the 4th gen, they WERE optioned up in the Bighorn packages so they had a lot more than the other brands for LESS money. Now the CEO gets millions for poor performance, the quality is down and the problems that should be fixed are ignored. I mean, the damned leaks! COME ON... 19,20,21,22,23,24 and they STILL have trucks with back seats flooding?

Anyway, sorry to **** and moan but I feel like they abandoned customers like me and they deserve what they get. My truck stickered at 48k but there was 3k in incentives = 45k. Same options is now 65k, so I won't be bothering them with my business again. My truck is meticulously kept, maintained and is spotless. Mark Ram who can seemingly move mountains, offered me 15k trade. My 2nd thought after I got that offensive number was - If this is how they're holding resale value, anyone who buys one is screwed.

 

[HEMIMANN]

How to go out of business for overpaid idiot executives, 101.

 

[KalboKalbs]

"Your first statement was that the EPA was established via EO and not by Congress. My statement was that congress authorized the EPA. Twice, technically. 1970 and 1984 after SCOTUS decisions on a semi-related topic called the legality of the first resolution in to question."

"Twice technically" is not officially, and that is my point. EPA is an article 2 directive, or EO if you wish. Point me to the Congressional act that established the EPA? The EPA is funded through the Dept. of the Interior by appropriation bills which are for specific purposes only. Funding specific EPA initiatives is not the same thing as authorizing an Article 2 agency. Yes, EPA staff is funded, but not directly.

The unconstitutionality comes in the form of the EPA making rules that have not been approved by Congress. The Loper Bright case is a primary example. There was no Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM), no 60 day open comment period, and no Congressional acceptance or approval in clear violation of the Administrative Procedure Act. This gives unlimited power to unelected bureaucrats.

The EPA rule in Loper Bright was an arbitrary rule requiring private fishing companies to maintain a monitor on each boat and pay them $700 a day. This would have the effect of putting many fishing boat companies out of business. Please note that the Loper Bright plaintiffs sued the Secretary of Commerce, not the EPA because the EPA has no congressional legal standing.

Since this discussion has been noted to be quite a bit outside the thread title, and may be boring to some (unless they agree with your position), I've made my arguments and I stand by them, but I respectfully will not add to the further clutter of this discussion.

Best Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 115511 miles.

Thanks for chiming in. GREAT information.

Putting aside, dumb decisions by auto manufactures, crap economy including interest rates...

 

[tjfdesmo]

The last CEO who passed seemed to know what the americans wanted and left well enough alone with our vehicles. This current CEO seems to want to self destruct the current brand and let it drown.

A lot of the rampant cost cutting, and slowdown of product development actually began under Sergio, but Tavares has gone off the deep end with it.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Was Tavares the guy who wrecked VW? Another product know-nothing bean counter.

 

[tjfdesmo]

Was Tavares the guy who wrecked VW? Another product know-nothing bean counter.

No, pretty much a Renault guy, which means he also participated in their destruction of Nissan.

I knew lots of folks who worked at Mack Trucks during the dark days of Renault tomfoolery. Also have friends who were engineers at American Motors when Renault took over. Same arrogant BS. Rare exception was Francois Castaign who came from the racing side of things and actually was a product guy who "got it".

 

[HEMIMANN]

No, pretty much a Renault guy, which means he also participated in their destruction of Nissan.

I knew lots of folks who worked at Mack Trucks during the dark days of Renault tomfoolery. Also have friends who were engineers at American Motors when Renault took over. Same arrogant BS. Rare exception was Francois Castaign who came from the racing side of things and actually was a product guy who "got it".

How the hell did Mack survive?
American Motors was in my 'backyard'. They weren't very good, but could have been improved.

I suppose it's the same old thing - overbid for a company, well the pieces for profit, ****** gone. Vulture capitalism. Has nothing to do with government.

 

[HEMIMANN]

2nd round of firings in 9 months, as the great man continues ripping his bonuses out for his failed leadership.

Heckuva job, Brownie!

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/stellantis-job-cuts-voluntary-buyout-offered-salaried-workers

This brings back such fond memories of my demise.

 

[tjfdesmo]

2nd round of firings in 9 months, as the great man continues ripping his bonuses out for his failed leadership.

Heckuva job, Brownie!

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/stellantis-job-cuts-voluntary-buyout-offered-salaried-workers

This brings back such fond memories of my demise.

Beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Beatings will continue until morale improves.

Omg don't say that - I'm starting to twitch again.

 

[91rt]

WTF is $2000 going to do on a $85k truck haha! When is stellantis going to do rebates on 2 year old trucks sitting in lots not selling. They are on drugs if they think 2-4k is going to move these vehicles. They had trouble moving some of them at 15-20% off so good luck. Then you throw quality issues on top of it and it becomes a joke. I am die hard Mopar to the core and I am even waiting to buy anything to see what happens with this company because right now they are in some serious trouble in multiple issues on price and quality as well as their leadership.