Trailering 25' landscape trailer with a 1500

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RamFP620

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I'm looking for opinions here. I have a 2017 1500 with 3.92 gears. I'm already towing a 7000# boat with a tandem trailer (~500# tongue weight) with this setup and don't have any issues.
My kid is in marching band and I was asked if I would be willing to trailer the band trailer which is a 25' landscape trailer because relying on the school grounds folks has had its issues.
The trailer is a tandem (I guess that would be obvious) and a GVWR or 9900# which seems to be the norm for this size trailer.

I doubt the trailer is anywhere near 9900# but I would get it weighed to make sure. I know with the boat, the 500# tongue weight is below the normal 10-15% limit but some folks said this was ok because its a boat. But for a box trailer, I'm assuming the 10-15% rule will apply.

Should my 1500 be able to handle this trailer? Thoughts?
 

wrench78

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Could it tow it, yes probably. With the 3.92 I'm assuming you have the Hemi 5.7? I know my 2017 Laramie Crew cab with the Hemi 5.7 and 3.92 I can tow 10,100 lbs. My concern is your payload. The payload will be around 900 lbs or so. Not sure how many people you will have in the cab plus the tongue weight of the trailer and any other cargo, you will probably be over your payload
 
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RamFP620

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The big question is how much weight will you add to it. Empty weight is probably around 2700#, which is nothing compared to the boat.
Based on the placard, I'd say the empty weight is upper 4000#. Placard states max payload in the 5000# area. Without getting it weighed, I'm guessing total weight may hit 8000#....hard to believe there's 3000# of band equipment....so it still could be no heavier than my boat.
 
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RamFP620

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Could it tow it, yes probably. With the 3.92 I'm assuming you have the Hemi 5.7? I know my 2017 Laramie Crew cab with the Hemi 5.7 and 3.92 I can tow 10,100 lbs. My concern is your payload. The payload will be around 900 lbs or so. Not sure how many people you will have in the cab plus the tongue weight of the trailer and any other cargo, you will probably be over your payload
Yes, I have the 5.7. If I do decide/feel comfortable to tow it, I will be the only one in the truck so the payload will only be tongue weight.
 

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Hook that thing up and don’t worry about it. Your truck will tow it with ease. Even if loaded with all the band members and their gear. Not like you’re putting a 6klb tractor on it and towing it over the Rockies.
 

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Pulling it no problem... carrying the weight and stopping? How has no one asked yet what the payload on your door sticker says?
 

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Routinely had a legitimate 10K on the hitch of my prior '04 2wd 1500 quad cab, Hemi, 3.92. Yes, everything was overloaded.

At the time, I would have told you it handled the weight no problem, and would have even considered going up to 12 or 13K before starting to get nervous. This was even pulling it over Arizona and Colorado mountains.

The day I switched it out for a 1 ton was a real eye opener on just how bad of an idea it was to do that with a 1/2 ton, lol. All the wandering and general instability, lack of braking, etc that I thought was just a normal part of towing that kind of weight disappeared. Ever since, I won't buy anything less than a 3/4 ton regardless of the weight I'm pulling/hauling.

BUT, my real concern here isn't whether the truck can/can't handle it, rather it's the liability you're setting yourself up for. If you ever have an incident while pulling this trailer, and your insurance catches wind that you're pulling the school's trailer, they're likely going to deny the claim which will leave you high and dry when the other party sees a lotto win.

The insurance company will likely view this as commercial hauling, whether you're getting compensated for it or not, and it's extremely unlikely a personal insurance policy will cover commercial use. That the school is even considering this option says that either they will also leave you high and dry, or have absolutely no idea how this works...both of which are very bad for you.

Mixing personal vehicles with "commercial" use opens you and the school up to all kinds of liability concerns, and this is the big reason many companies have strict policies against using personal vehicles for work purposes.
 

mtofell

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Routinely had a legitimate 10K on the hitch of my prior '04 2wd 1500 quad cab, Hemi, 3.92. Yes, everything was overloaded.

At the time, I would have told you it handled the weight no problem, and would have even considered going up to 12 or 13K before starting to get nervous. This was even pulling it over Arizona and Colorado mountains.

The day I switched it out for a 1 ton was a real eye opener on just how bad of an idea it was to do that with a 1/2 ton, lol. All the wandering and general instability, lack of braking, etc that I thought was just a normal part of towing that kind of weight disappeared. Ever since, I won't buy anything less than a 3/4 ton regardless of the weight I'm pulling/hauling.

BUT, my real concern here isn't whether the truck can/can't handle it, rather it's the liability you're setting yourself up for. If you ever have an incident while pulling this trailer, and your insurance catches wind that you're pulling the school's trailer, they're likely going to deny the claim which will leave you high and dry when the other party sees a lotto win.

The insurance company will likely view this as commercial hauling, whether you're getting compensated for it or not, and it's extremely unlikely a personal insurance policy will cover commercial use. That the school is even considering this option says that either they will also leave you high and dry, or have absolutely no idea how this works...both of which are very bad for you.

Mixing personal vehicles with "commercial" use opens you and the school up to all kinds of liability concerns, and this is the big reason many companies have strict policies against using personal vehicles for work purposes.

Great post and same experience as mine with the 1/2 ton to 3/4 towing experience.

Also, great point about liability. OP, a HUGE line is if/when you take any money.... then it becomes commercial. I've heard horror stories of people taking a few bucks from a neighbor for hauling something a few miles and admitting that to a weigh station, cop, etc.. If you're just doing it for the school as a volunteer your liability is likely minimal in that regard. I'd be REALLY weary taking ANY money though. Fwiw, I'm sure the school has some type of umbrella insurance policy but you really don't want to deal with that. A few bucks for gas, etc. AFTERWARDS is probably okay but tread carefully. Transportation rules/laws are super strict.
 

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My kid is in marching band and I was asked if I would be willing to trailer the band trailer which is a 25' landscape trailer because relying on the school grounds folks has had its issues.
The trailer is a tandem (I guess that would be obvious) and a GVWR or 9900# which seems to be the norm for this size trailer.

There shouldn't be any problems towing that trailer stocked up with band equipment, as the instruments are more bulk than weight. You say it's a landscape trailer, but guessing this is an enclosed utility trailer? or do the instruments get tarped in case of rain?
 

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There shouldn't be any problems towing that trailer stocked up with band equipment, as the instruments are more bulk than weight. You say it's a landscape trailer, but guessing this is an enclosed utility trailer? or do the instruments get tarped in case of rain?

If it's a landscape trailer they would HAVE to tarp everything off - those instruments cost more than the trailer, so ANYTHING happening to them gets expensive quick, and if all steps aren't taken to protect them the school's insurance may not pay out. Honestly I'd be surprised if it's a landscape trailer and not an enclosed trailer - every band teacher I've ever known would throw a fit about instruments being exposed like that.
 

2003F350

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Great post and same experience as mine with the 1/2 ton to 3/4 towing experience.

Also, great point about liability. OP, a HUGE line is if/when you take any money.... then it becomes commercial. I've heard horror stories of people taking a few bucks from a neighbor for hauling something a few miles and admitting that to a weigh station, cop, etc.. If you're just doing it for the school as a volunteer your liability is likely minimal in that regard. I'd be REALLY weary taking ANY money though. Fwiw, I'm sure the school has some type of umbrella insurance policy but you really don't want to deal with that. A few bucks for gas, etc. AFTERWARDS is probably okay but tread carefully. Transportation rules/laws are super strict.

This right here. If he accepts any payment up front and something happens, he's suddenly commercial without insurance and nothing is covered, so he's on the hook for ALL of it. If he volunteers, generally speaking he'd be okay and the school's insurance will cover damage to the trailer and instruments, his will cover his vehicle. Of course that varies by state, at-fault insurance also takes the other person's insurance into account.

If he volunteers and wants reimbursed for fuel/mileage, the school should have forms for that to be completed afterwards. However, he likely will have to sign forms that any damage to his vehicle during said trip is not the school's liability, and that he likely can't have any passengers except POSSIBLY his own kid.

That said, it shouldn't be too bad of a tow if it's loaded properly, as band instruments don't really weigh that much, you'll generally only see the drums and bigger instruments put in there, the smaller ones will likely be on the bus with the kids.
 
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RamFP620

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This right here. If he accepts any payment up front and something happens, he's suddenly commercial without insurance and nothing is covered, so he's on the hook for ALL of it. If he volunteers, generally speaking he'd be okay and the school's insurance will cover damage to the trailer and instruments, his will cover his vehicle. Of course that varies by state, at-fault insurance also takes the other person's insurance into account.

If he volunteers and wants reimbursed for fuel/mileage, the school should have forms for that to be completed afterwards. However, he likely will have to sign forms that any damage to his vehicle during said trip is not the school's liability, and that he likely can't have any passengers except POSSIBLY his own kid.

That said, it shouldn't be too bad of a tow if it's loaded properly, as band instruments don't really weigh that much, you'll generally only see the drums and bigger instruments put in there, the smaller ones will likely be on the bus with the kids.
I've already been asking those insurance/liability questions because I know how this world works :gr_grin: I'm all for helping out so that the band doesn't miss a competition because no one was available to haul the trailer but I also don't want to be SOL without a truck if something happens. On the other side of town, the other high school got a box truck....that's the rich side of town, you know.....we get a stinky trailer.....it would have been better to get a truck.

My kid would be on the bus and the rest of the family would go in the other car. Going with the assumption that I could have 900# of tongue weight, I know the truck would be overloaded if I threw the rest of the family in there....so it would be only me.
 
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RamFP620

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If it's a landscape trailer they would HAVE to tarp everything off - those instruments cost more than the trailer, so ANYTHING happening to them gets expensive quick, and if all steps aren't taken to protect them the school's insurance may not pay out. Honestly I'd be surprised if it's a landscape trailer and not an enclosed trailer - every band teacher I've ever known would throw a fit about instruments being exposed like that.
My bad, it's a box trailer. A lot of the landscapers around me use them rather than the open trailers with the ramp.
 
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RamFP620

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How far? and at what speeds?
Maybe 60 miles and I tow 60-65 mph and stick to the right lane....any faster and my oil temp goes higher than I'm comfortable with. It annoys me when I see other boaters blow by me in the left lane.
 

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Also, great point about liability. OP, a HUGE line is if/when you take any money.... then it becomes commercial. I've heard horror stories of people taking a few bucks from a neighbor for hauling something a few miles and admitting that to a weigh station, cop, etc.. If you're just doing it for the school as a volunteer your liability is likely minimal in that regard. I'd be REALLY weary taking ANY money though. Fwiw, I'm sure the school has some type of umbrella insurance policy but you really don't want to deal with that. A few bucks for gas, etc. AFTERWARDS is probably okay but tread carefully. Transportation rules/laws are super strict.
Edit: Sorry for the wall of text, all. I have ADHD and Autism...sometimes when my brain hits a topic, it doesn't stop overflowing information. It didn't look that big on my screen, but when I looked at the post...whoa...lol.

The school's insurance covers them, not you. Volunteering adds in a whole 'nother layer of issues you really don't want to be a part of either.

There's reasons why "compensation" is the word used in the FMCSA regulations, as opposed to something like wages or income. To normal people, wages and compensation is often used interchangeably. But from a legal standpoint, compensation is receiving anything of value in exchange for services performed. Donations and gifts are also considered compensation.

Pull a trailer, and get a nifty school band t-shirt to say thanks? You've just been compensated.
Spent $23.12 on gas, and they hand you a $50 gift card to Bob's Pizza for your trouble? You've just been compensated. They hand you a nifty plaque for trailer puller of the year? You've just been compensated.

The trailer doesn't even need to be involved here either. Toss a load of instruments in the bed of the truck that aren't your kid's instruments, and you're doing the same thing. Having the trailer in tow just makes a heck of lot easier to claim commercial hauling, as the trailer will be titled/registered to the school.

Easy answer to this - call your insurance company, and ask them what they'll cover in the event of a claim related to pulling the school's trailer, and/or hauling school equipment in your truck.

OP doing this as a volunteer adds another layer of stickiness to this problem. Typically, a volunteer driving their own vehicle for a nonprofit, which almost all schools are, would be running under their personal vehicle insurance policy while volunteering. This is normal, and legal, but does not make for a good deal for the volunteer. Say something fails on the trailer, and causes you to lose control and hit another car. Your personal insurance is first in line. The other party is very likely to name both you and the school in the lawsuit aftewards. While the school may very well pay out any claims in full, this is still a nightmare you don't want to be a part of. Especially if they say your totalled truck is your insurance's problem...remember that part about a personal policy may not cover this?

While my personal opinion is one of run the hell away from this, I do completely understand the desire to want to help out. Chances are OP could do this for years, and nothing bad will ever happen. But if it does....things can go real ugly real fast.

If I found myself in the situation of really wanting to do this, ideally it would be done as a part time employee of the school driving a school owned vehicle. This then shifts the entirety of liability on to the school and their insurance program, leaving your personal insurance completely out of the mix. This also means that in the event you ever becoming injured in connection with this towing duty, you're covered under workers comp insurance. Volunteers rarely are covered. The sad truth is that in the USA, the laws protect the organization FAR more than volunteers, and far too many organizations take advangtage of this in ways that cover the organzation's proverbial ass, not the volunteers.

If you really want to use your personal vehicle, I'd still suggest doing so as a part time employee. If they insist on you doing so as a volunteer, it's not to protect you, and that's a big ol' red flag on fire. Make absolutely sure they have a provision for non owned auto coverage that includes comprehensive and collision. If they stop at liability only, your totalled vehicle is your problem. Even if your insurance does cover this use, do you really want to be on the hook for years of increased insurance premiums?
 
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It’s the emergency panic stop that would be the biggest problem. Maybe it’s time for some fund raising activities to acquire a box truck . Might try inquiring at some dealerships around the area , and the local news. You never know when someone may step up and offer some assistance.
 

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Check the door sticker. What is the max axle weights, the gross vehicle weight, the max combined, and importantly, max payload. Get a h=good WDH, and then scale it for setup
 

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I regularly do volunteer trailer towing for our local public school band. We regularly pull 3-4 trailers to competitions. One of the trailers is a similar size 26' 9,900 GVW enclosed trailer. It's packed full of band equipment and doesn't weigh anywhere close to 9,900 lb. when loaded...most band equipment is bulky and fills up room, but not really that heavy. It's been pulled over the state with various 1/2 ton pickups or full-size SUV's over the years. However most of the trips are only 15-20 miles and often only up to 55 MPH roads. I wouldn't be too worried about pulling the trailer.
In regards to people talking about liability and volunteers........are any of these people lawyers, school officials involved with the policy, or have even read the policies? I'm guessing the answer is no. In our school district ANY volunteer at ANY school function has to be officially approved and badged for that activity. That addresses the insurance and liability concerns, including volunteering for towing using your personal vehicle. They do reimburse you for mileage, but I don't believe the reimbursing you for mileage qualifies as compensation. Not like you are making a profit for doing this. My suggestion would to actually call and talk to a school official about this if you have concerns. Any competent public school district that has an official volunteering policy should have this clearly defined in what is involved.
 
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