3500 SRW Tow Specs

[JHC1]

Hello all. I have been spending considerable time figuring towing capacity of my 24 RAM 3500 SRW turbo diesel, 3.73, non HO trans. Unfortunately I have found many comments/threads on using the online VIN decoder from Ram but I have yet to find where to enter the vin on the web page. Oh well, I have a max payload capacity of 4,251 lbs to start with and a GVWR of 12,300 lbs. As with my bumper pull (and F150), I used payload number and started subtracting from there and was able to tow our imagine 22MLE very well. We have since upgraded the tow vehicle to the Ram. We would like to purchase a 5th wheel toy hauler. I pulled down a chart from Ram and it shows the max trailer weight is 20,010 lbs. Is that the trailer GVWR?

I am trying to get a good idea of the size/weight of a trailer I can safely tow so I have a starting point on my search for a new toy hauler.

Any help would be appreciated.
John....

 

[tron67j]

Load your truck with people, gear you travel with ,hitch, etc. and go weigh your truck. Subtract this from the GVWR on the door sticker, this is your available payload capacity. Your hitch or pin weight (travel trailer or 5th wheel, respectively) should not exceed your available PC. Very, very general idea is multiply your full trailer weight by .15, that will give a starting point to figure if a trailer works for you as the number should be under your available PC, but best to weigh the hitch weight to verify.

 

[JHC1]

Thanks Tron. I plan on running to the scales but I don't have the hitch as I haven't determined what trailer. When you say "full trailer weight", are you referring to the dry weight or the GVWR? I am looking at a couple of 5th wheels: Alliance Valor 36V11 or a GD 320G but I want to make sure my Ram can handle one of these or smaller......

 

[Tulecreeper]

Thanks Tron. I plan on running to the scales but I don't have the hitch as I haven't determined what trailer. When you say "full trailer weight", are you referring to the dry weight or the GVWR? I am looking at a couple of 5th wheels: Alliance Valor 36V11 or a GD 320G but I want to make sure my Ram can handle one of these or smaller......

Always figure your numbers using the GVWR (full trailer weight) as anything to do with dry weight does you no good.

 

[JHC1]

It appears I can pull a 16,000 lb trailer when I subtract my GVWR from GCWR. I will also be under my payload by about 1,000 lbs looking at the Alliance Valor or the GD 320G. However, both of these trailers are above the 16,000 number by about 900 lbs or so.

 

[JHC1]

2024 Ram 3500 SRW, 6.7L. As a follow up, can someone provide a little guidance/confirmation on what I am seeing here? So the max trailer weight I can tow is about 20,000 lbs? My curb weight via scale is 8,860 lbs (2 passengers, full tank, plus various stuff in the bed to simulate camping trip) which differs from the Base Curb Weight shown (7,918 lbs). I am looking at a 5th wheel toy hauler (Valor 36V11) with a hitch weight of 2,995 lbs, and a GVWR of 16,950 lbs.

 

[2003F350]

You should be fine with that trailer, the weight of the trailer isn't as important as the hitch weight, but even so you can handle a lot of hitch weight with your GVW and rear axle rating.

 

[JHC1]

Had the Ram weighed today. CAT scale readings as follows:
- Steer Axle - 5140
- Drive Axel - 3400
- Gross Weight - 8540

I guess I am not understanding the relationship of the pin weight, PC, GVWR, trailer GVWR, and now these weights. Any thoughts?

 

[2003F350]

Now that you have those numbers, you can look at your axle weight ratings, looks like your front is 6k and your rear is 7k from the picture you posted earlier.

That means you've got about 900 lbs you can add to the front axle, and 3600 lbs you can add to the rear axle. Looks like your weight as measured is about 600 lbs heavier than what it supposedly was when it was built, that would be anything you've added to the truck already (hitch, any people besides the driver, etc).

You're about in the normal ballpark, because most of the weight of the pin is going to be centered directly over your rear axle and it is going to see 99% of the weight.

That means your truck is rated to handle, presuming you weighed the truck with the hitch in the bed, a pin weight of about 3600 lbs as it was weighed. If you add people or gear to the truck, these numbers are going to change, but suffice to say you're rated to handle all but the very biggest of toy haulers/rvs out there. The Valor you are looking at SHOULD be no issue for your truck, provided your truck was weighed relatively similarly loaded to what it will be when you're hauling the camper. If your hitch wasn't in the truck, be aware that you need to reduce your allowable pin weight by the weight of the hitch.

When it comes to RVs and pulling them, the numbers you REALLY need to watch are your axle ratings and the GROSS pin/hitch weight of the trailer. Payload should be watched, but I personally argue that the axle ratings are more important. The 'max tow rating' is based on a series of tests involving getting up to a certain speed within a certain amount of time/distance, stopping within a certain amount of time/distance, and several other factors (and I don't even know what all of the criteria is), and for the most part it's just for bragging rights.

As for GVWR and GCVWR, these are the max numbers your truck and truck/trailer combo are allowed to weigh if you're using them for business/to make money (they aren't typically enforced by law enforcement for RVs BUT with how lawyers and insurance companies are these days it's a good idea to follow them, there is risk of liability if they're exceeded and something happens. It's a relatively low risk, but it is still a risk that an ambitious lawyer could latch on to).

 

[JHC1]

Thanks 2003F350. The 600 lbs was the Rhino bed liner, bed mat, undercover flex trim fold bed cover, running boards and I had the B&W Tow and Stow hitch on. I will remove the bed mat, bed cover and hitch when I tow so that will gain me some however, I need to add the B&W Companion 5th wheel hitch back in so I guess close to a wash.

I am going to see if I can come across a 'lighter' toy hauler.

 

[2003F350]

Thanks 2003F350. The 600 lbs was the Rhino bed liner, bed mat, undercover flex trim fold bed cover, running boards and I had the B&W Tow and Stow hitch on. I will remove the bed mat, bed cover and hitch when I tow so that will gain me some however, I need to add the B&W Companion 5th wheel hitch back in so I guess close to a wash.

I am going to see if I can come across a 'lighter' toy hauler.

As much as I love the B&W hitch systems, it is a HEAVY hitch. I have the slider OEM, and it takes two people to get the lower half into the bed of the truck (I can manhandle it once it's up there). It is definitely heavier than it needs to be. If you want to free up some weight capability there are a lot lighter hitches out there, but it's 100% up to you.

 

[JHC1]

I am looking at the Gen-Y hitch. Seems to be a lot of reviews, and most good.

 

[nlambert182]

Both the Gen-Y and Reese Goosebox are fantastic hitches. They still weigh about the same as a traditional fifth wheel hitch though, so in terms of overall weight that will be on the truck, you don't save much. What you save is in trying to remove a fifth wheel hitch from the truck when you need to use it.

To keep it REALLY simple (and others have said this)....

Trailer GVWR x 20% to determine your max fifth wheel trailer pin weight. 15% is for travel trailers. Toyhaulers when loaded have a lighter pin weight than a normal 5th wheel, so if you scale it, do it with the garage loaded and empty. A lot of weight transfers back to the hitch when the garage is empty.

Then take your payload rating and subtract all gear weights... hitches, people, cargo, etc... That is your adjusted payload.

Pin weight should be below your available payload.

I don't personally advocate for towing above the payload number, BUT.... if you exceed payload by a small margin and stay within the rear axle capacity, realistically, you're fine.

One other consideration is length. Some toyhaulers are LONG... and even though a 3500 SRW might have the capacity to tow it, it may not be as easy to control as it would be with a dually. So keep length in mind as well.

 

[nlambert182]

I just went back and did the math. If your rear axle is a 7k lb axle and you scaled at 3,400 lbs, and if 20% of the GVWR of the trailer is 3,390 lbs....

7,000 - 3,400 = 3,600 available on the axle.
3,600 - 3,390 = 210 lbs remaining on the rear axle.

That is before people, cargo, etc...

Based on that math... you're going to be overloaded on the axle with that Valor. I would definitely find a smaller rig that the GVWR stays under 14k lbs.

 

[rzr6-4]

7,000 - 3,400 = 3,600 available on the axle.
3,600 - 3,390 = 210 lbs remaining on the rear axle.

That is before people, cargo, etc...

Based on that math... you're going to be overloaded on the axle with that Valor. I would definitely find a smaller rig that the GVWR stays under 14k lbs.

Being over by a couple hundred is little more than a rounding error.

With my 2500 I still have to be a little careful when things get really heavy. With a 3500, I would get my weight distribution right and I wouldn't think twice beyond that. Granted you are single wheel, but how many dualys do you see out there (not many) vs the number of people with gigantic campers? I assure you there are many people running similar load on a SRW 3500.

 

[JHC1]

At 14K GVWR, I only have about 800 lbs for gear, people, etc. Just surprised as hell my 1 ton Ram can't pull a 5th wheel toy hauler!! And I see a ton of 3/4 tons out there hauling 5th wheels all day!!!! Very frustrated and I am not interested in a dually..... Rant over.

 

[nlambert182]

What did you expect? The single rear wheel is what is limiting you.... The tires can only carry so much and the ring gear is slightly smaller (11.5" vs 12"). A dually that is outfitted the same as your single wheel will gain you close to 2k lbs more capacity. My 3500 Laramie had a payload of 5,800 lbs. I pulled my 43' fifth wheel all the time and the weight leveled it. It was the right truck for the trailer.

There are a few fifth wheels that 2500s can tow and be within their margins. 9 times out of 10 though, if you see a 2500 towing a toyhauler fifth wheel, they're over on both payload and axle ratings. The truck will physically move it because the powertrain is the same (engine and trans). The suspension is the limiting factor.

I literally had to move a 16k lb pintle hitch bumper pull trailer onto a drop deck 18wheeler at 8am this morning with the one in my sig. It got the trailer up there and power was no issue at all, but if I had to go more than 10-15 yards with it... it would have never happened. I was within a gnats hair of bottoming it out.

What's primarily setting you apart from a 2500 is the springs. I have coils on my 2500... you have leafs on yours. You're smack dab between a 2500 and 3500 DRW. If you don't want to go DRW, shrink your expectations to match the trailer.

 

[nlambert182]

Being over by a couple hundred is little more than a rounding error.

With my 2500 I still have to be a little careful when things get really heavy. With a 3500, I would get my weight distribution right and I wouldn't think twice beyond that. Granted you are single wheel, but how many dualys do you see out there (not many) vs the number of people with gigantic campers? I assure you there are many people running similar load on a SRW 3500.

More than you think. I see a lot more duallys in the rv parks than SRWs.... but I do see some come in there pulling a triple axle toyhauler. We laugh when they come by. It's just stupid. Size the truck and trailer appropriately or don't get into the hobby. It surely isn't worth the risk.

I can see being over a few hundred on payload and wouldn't be too concerned with that, but axle ratings are different. That is your last margin of error before things go south.

 

[JHC1]

What did you expect? The single rear wheel is what is limiting you.... The tires can only carry so much and the ring gear is slightly smaller (11.5" vs 12"). A dually that is outfitted the same as your single wheel will gain you close to 2k lbs more capacity. My 3500 Laramie had a payload of 5,800 lbs. I pulled my 43' fifth wheel all the time and the weight leveled it. It was the right truck for the trailer.

There are a few fifth wheels that 2500s can tow and be within their margins. 9 times out of 10 though, if you see a 2500 towing a toyhauler fifth wheel, they're over on both payload and axle ratings. The truck will physically move it because the powertrain is the same (engine and trans). The suspension is the limiting factor.

I literally had to move a 16k lb pintle hitch bumper pull trailer onto a drop deck 18wheeler at 8am this morning with the one in my sig. It got the trailer up there and power was no issue at all, but if I had to go more than 10-15 yards with it... it would have never happened. I was within a gnats hair of bottoming it out.

What's primarily setting you apart from a 2500 is the springs. I have coils on my 2500... you have leafs on yours. You're smack dab between a 2500 and 3500 DRW. If you don't want to go DRW, shrink your expectations to match the trailer.

Thanks lambert. I have walked other smaller toy haulers and not impressed with the layout or quality and I don't want a bumper pull. Wife is set on this trailer! May just get the trailer and weight it on the way home. See where the numbers are. If not bad, I will load it up and go back and weigh again. If way over, probably will bite the bullet and look at getting a dually....

I am learning the heavy duty truck and larger trailers so appreciate everyone providing feedback/information. Thank you!!!!!

 

[2003F350]

Thanks lambert. I have walked other smaller toy haulers and not impressed with the layout or quality and I don't want a bumper pull. Wife is set on this trailer! May just get the trailer and weight it on the way home. See where the numbers are. If not bad, I will load it up and go back and weigh again. If way over, probably will bite the bullet and look at getting a dually....

I am learning the heavy duty truck and larger trailers so appreciate everyone providing feedback/information. Thank you!!!!!

Since I'm reading everything again, and you admitted that your scaled weight was WITHOUT your hitch, I'm going to revise my previous answer and say that the rig you're looking at is more than I'd want to put behind that truck.

If they're advertising that pin weight, it's the dry weight. Loaded up it'll be heavier, but that depends on what you've got in the garage at the back - more weight back there will lower your pin weight because it's behind the axles.

My in-laws had an older Cyclone triple-axle toyhauler, I don't recall the year or model now but it measured 43'. It was HEAVY - we bought it off them for a couple years and I pulled it with an F350 dually, and I wouldn't have wanted any less truck - that camper made me almost consider an F450, because on bad bumps I could feel it hitting the helper springs.

When they first bought it they went to the Heartland RV owners rallies with it. They met a guy from California who had the exact same camper and came through the Rockies pulling it with a SRW short box 1-ton, I think it was a GMC, it's been a while. He HATED how it pulled it, even with air bags and upgraded rear suspension that trailer pushed him everywhere. They saw him again at the next rally, and he'd traded his truck in for a dually and had a MUCH more comfortable drive.

The people you see driving down the expressway with massive fifth wheels behind 2500's and SRW 3500s are, more often than not, overloaded and probably have a death grip on the wheel. They'll never admit to it though, either because of their ego OR because they just don't know any better and the RV dealer told them it would be fine to make the sale.

It's all about having the right tool for the job. Yeah, your 3500 SRW will probably pull that camper you're eyeing, and even overloaded you might never have a problem - but I'll guarantee you a dually would be a better fit, it'll handle it better, and they're not too bad to daily drive if it's got to be your daily driver. You'll never park up close ever again unless it's the middle of the night, but it's 100% worth walking a bit to the grocery store.